From owner-ibis Tue Aug 1 05:39:22 2000 Received: from mailgate2.Cadence.COM (mailgate2.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.31]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id FAA14121 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM (zip.Cadence.COM [158.140.103.36]) by mailgate2.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19850 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cadence.com (zip [158.140.103.36]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03874; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Sender: mrl@cadence.com Message-ID: <3986C44F.9BEB00D1@cadence.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:36:31 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS standard inconsistency References: <398246BE.39DEAD26@ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received: By mailgate2.Cadence.COM as FAA19850 at Tue Aug 1 05:36:45 2000 The IBIS spec distinguishes between keywords and subparameters. Keywords are enclosed within square brackets. The spec examples of keywords have space separators, even though the spec says that underscores are allowed. The use of opening and closing brackets makes it easy to parse these, even though they may appear as multiple words. The spec also says that underscores and spaces are equivalent. So even though the spec examples use [GND clamp], parsers are supposed to recognize [GND_clamp] as being equivalent. Subparameters have no brackets. The spec states "Spaces are not allowed in subparameter names". An example of a subparameter name is Model_type. Although parsers certainly can handle multiple word sequences, it works out better that subparameters are always a single word (no spaces). Mike LaBonte Cadence Design Systems Stephen Nolan wrote: > > In the IBIS standard, the keywords [IBIS Ver] and [File Rev] appear to the the > only keywords that have capitalized words other than the first word (the word > IBIS being completely capitalized accepted as an acronym). All other keyword > have the first word capitalized followed by the other words lower case. Eg. > [Comment char], [File name], [Voltage range].... > > Why is there an inconsistency in the style of these keywords? > > Also, some multiple-word keywords use an underscore between words instead of a > space. Eg. [GND_clamp], [POWER_clamp]. > > Again, why the inconsistency? > -- > Regards, > Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Fri Aug 11 02:24:26 2000 Received: from mx2.tellabs.com (mx2.tellabs.com [204.68.180.51]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7B9OOf15369 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 02:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maile01.tellabs.fi ([193.64.171.209]) by mx2.tellabs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02881 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 04:21:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tellabs.com (dhcp-172-19-16-165.tellabs.fi [172.19.16.165]) by maile01.tellabs.fi with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.7.1) id LAA20024 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:21:14 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <3993C5A9.8BFD5893@tellabs.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:21:45 +0300 From: Olli Timonen Organization: Tellabs Oy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS Subject: problem with a model Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I have a problem with one IBIS model. The current of a pulldown starts to decrease after about 5V. How is this possible? What causes this kind of occurrences and is there any kind of solutions to fix this kind of a model? The [Pulldown] of a model in question is below. Regards, Olli |************************************************************************ | Model Buffer |************************************************************************ | [Model] Buffer Model_type 3-state Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl = 0.00V Vinh = 5.00V C_comp 5.00pF 5.00pF 5.00pF | | [Temperature Range] 25.00 100.00 -40.00 [Voltage Range] 5.00V 4.50V 5.50V [Pulldown] | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA 0.00A -4.60 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A -4.20 -1.00mA -1.00mA -1000.00uA -3.80 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA -3.40 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA -3.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -1.00mA -2.60 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -2.00mA -2.20 -1.00mA 0.00A -2.00mA -1.80 -2.00mA -2.00mA -3.00mA -1.40 -3.50mA -2.00mA -5.80mA -1.00 -10.70mA -4.60mA -37.60mA -0.90 -19.70mA -6.50mA -83.83mA -0.80 -43.09mA -10.50mA -93.72mA -0.70 -53.81mA -20.14mA -85.15mA -0.60 -48.13mA -28.69mA -75.24mA -0.50 -41.67mA -26.51mA -65.04mA -0.40 -34.83mA -22.15mA -54.70mA -0.30 -27.32mA -17.29mA -43.21mA -0.20 -19.06mA -12.00mA -30.38mA -0.10 -10.00mA -6.25mA -16.04mA 0.00 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A 0.10 10.61mA 6.62mA 16.95mA 0.20 21.06mA 13.28mA 33.15mA 0.30 31.04mA 19.69mA 48.53mA 0.40 40.58mA 25.83mA 63.11mA 0.50 49.67mA 31.71mA 76.92mA 0.60 58.31mA 37.32mA 89.97mA 0.70 66.54mA 42.66mA 102.32mA 0.80 74.33mA 47.74mA 113.91mA 0.90 81.73mA 52.57mA 124.89mA 1.00 88.71mA 57.14mA 135.18mA 1.10 95.29mA 61.45mA 144.77mA 1.20 101.53mA 65.51mA 153.85mA 1.30 107.31mA 69.32mA 162.24mA 1.40 112.70mA 72.88mA 170.12mA 1.50 117.78mA 76.19mA 177.41mA 1.60 122.47mA 79.26mA 184.09mA 1.70 126.85mA 82.09mA 190.38mA 1.80 130.83mA 84.68mA 196.06mA 1.90 134.52mA 87.04mA 201.25mA 2.00 137.90mA 89.16mA 206.03mA 2.10 140.89mA 91.06mA 210.31mA 2.20 143.57mA 92.73mA 214.20mA 2.30 145.95mA 94.18mA 217.58mA 2.40 148.04mA 95.40mA 220.56mA 2.50 149.82mA 96.42mA 223.14mA 2.60 151.30mA 97.23mA 225.32mA 2.70 152.48mA 97.82mA 227.11mA 2.80 153.47mA 98.21mA 228.59mA 2.90 154.15mA 98.50mA 229.67mA 3.00 154.53mA 98.79mA 230.45mA 3.10 155.01mA 99.06mA 231.03mA 3.20 155.29mA 99.28mA 231.51mA 3.30 155.68mA 99.57mA 231.99mA 3.40 156.06mA 99.85mA 232.46mA 3.50 156.34mA 100.04mA 232.84mA 3.60 156.62mA 100.23mA 233.32mA 3.70 156.90mA 100.41mA 233.70mA 3.80 157.18mA 100.60mA 233.98mA 3.90 157.46mA 100.79mA 234.35mA 4.00 157.64mA 100.97mA 234.63mA 4.10 157.92mA 101.16mA 234.91mA 4.20 158.11mA 101.35mA 235.09mA 4.30 158.29mA 101.43mA 235.36mA 4.40 158.47mA 101.62mA 235.54mA 4.50 158.55mA 101.70mA 235.71mA 4.60 158.73mA 101.79mA 235.79mA 4.70 158.81mA 101.88mA 235.87mA 4.80 158.89mA 101.96mA 235.94mA 4.90 158.97mA 102.08mA 236.02mA 5.00 159.05mA 101.98mA 236.09mA 5.10 159.03mA 101.88mA 236.07mA 5.20 159.01mA 102.00mA 236.04mA 5.30 159.09mA 102.10mA 235.91mA 5.40 159.04mA 102.20mA 235.89mA 5.50 158.73mA 102.10mA 235.76mA 5.60 158.13mA 102.20mA 235.64mA 5.70 157.92mA 102.20mA 235.41mA 5.80 158.36mA 101.80mA 235.28mA 5.90 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.97mA 6.00 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.25mA 6.40 157.60mA 102.00mA 232.97mA 6.80 158.00mA 102.00mA 232.20mA 7.20 156.00mA 101.00mA 231.00mA 7.60 156.00mA 101.00mA 230.00mA 8.00 155.00mA 101.00mA 229.00mA 8.40 155.00mA 101.00mA 228.00mA 8.80 155.00mA 101.00mA 226.00mA 9.20 154.00mA 100.00mA 225.00mA 9.60 153.00mA 100.00mA 224.00mA 10.00 153.00mA 99.00mA 222.00mA From owner-ibis Fri Aug 11 07:53:34 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7BErVf16612 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs04-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.204]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.30 2000/06/08 18:25:35 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id OAA27957; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:51:56 GMT Received: from fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com ([132.233.48.26]) by 132.233.48.204 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:50:58 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <3X9RY7ZF>; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:50:19 -0700 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987098C50@FMSMSX34> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'Olli Timonen'" , IBIS Subject: RE: problem with a model Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:50:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Olli, This can happen if the IV curve is made from lab measurements and they sweep it to slowly. The chip heats up and consequently the current goes down. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Olli Timonen [mailto:Olli.Timonen@tellabs.com] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 2:22 AM To: IBIS Subject: problem with a model Hi! I have a problem with one IBIS model. The current of a pulldown starts to decrease after about 5V. How is this possible? What causes this kind of occurrences and is there any kind of solutions to fix this kind of a model? The [Pulldown] of a model in question is below. Regards, Olli |************************************************************************ | Model Buffer |************************************************************************ | [Model] Buffer Model_type 3-state Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl = 0.00V Vinh = 5.00V C_comp 5.00pF 5.00pF 5.00pF | | [Temperature Range] 25.00 100.00 -40.00 [Voltage Range] 5.00V 4.50V 5.50V [Pulldown] | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA 0.00A -4.60 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A -4.20 -1.00mA -1.00mA -1000.00uA -3.80 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA -3.40 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA -3.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -1.00mA -2.60 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -2.00mA -2.20 -1.00mA 0.00A -2.00mA -1.80 -2.00mA -2.00mA -3.00mA -1.40 -3.50mA -2.00mA -5.80mA -1.00 -10.70mA -4.60mA -37.60mA -0.90 -19.70mA -6.50mA -83.83mA -0.80 -43.09mA -10.50mA -93.72mA -0.70 -53.81mA -20.14mA -85.15mA -0.60 -48.13mA -28.69mA -75.24mA -0.50 -41.67mA -26.51mA -65.04mA -0.40 -34.83mA -22.15mA -54.70mA -0.30 -27.32mA -17.29mA -43.21mA -0.20 -19.06mA -12.00mA -30.38mA -0.10 -10.00mA -6.25mA -16.04mA 0.00 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A 0.10 10.61mA 6.62mA 16.95mA 0.20 21.06mA 13.28mA 33.15mA 0.30 31.04mA 19.69mA 48.53mA 0.40 40.58mA 25.83mA 63.11mA 0.50 49.67mA 31.71mA 76.92mA 0.60 58.31mA 37.32mA 89.97mA 0.70 66.54mA 42.66mA 102.32mA 0.80 74.33mA 47.74mA 113.91mA 0.90 81.73mA 52.57mA 124.89mA 1.00 88.71mA 57.14mA 135.18mA 1.10 95.29mA 61.45mA 144.77mA 1.20 101.53mA 65.51mA 153.85mA 1.30 107.31mA 69.32mA 162.24mA 1.40 112.70mA 72.88mA 170.12mA 1.50 117.78mA 76.19mA 177.41mA 1.60 122.47mA 79.26mA 184.09mA 1.70 126.85mA 82.09mA 190.38mA 1.80 130.83mA 84.68mA 196.06mA 1.90 134.52mA 87.04mA 201.25mA 2.00 137.90mA 89.16mA 206.03mA 2.10 140.89mA 91.06mA 210.31mA 2.20 143.57mA 92.73mA 214.20mA 2.30 145.95mA 94.18mA 217.58mA 2.40 148.04mA 95.40mA 220.56mA 2.50 149.82mA 96.42mA 223.14mA 2.60 151.30mA 97.23mA 225.32mA 2.70 152.48mA 97.82mA 227.11mA 2.80 153.47mA 98.21mA 228.59mA 2.90 154.15mA 98.50mA 229.67mA 3.00 154.53mA 98.79mA 230.45mA 3.10 155.01mA 99.06mA 231.03mA 3.20 155.29mA 99.28mA 231.51mA 3.30 155.68mA 99.57mA 231.99mA 3.40 156.06mA 99.85mA 232.46mA 3.50 156.34mA 100.04mA 232.84mA 3.60 156.62mA 100.23mA 233.32mA 3.70 156.90mA 100.41mA 233.70mA 3.80 157.18mA 100.60mA 233.98mA 3.90 157.46mA 100.79mA 234.35mA 4.00 157.64mA 100.97mA 234.63mA 4.10 157.92mA 101.16mA 234.91mA 4.20 158.11mA 101.35mA 235.09mA 4.30 158.29mA 101.43mA 235.36mA 4.40 158.47mA 101.62mA 235.54mA 4.50 158.55mA 101.70mA 235.71mA 4.60 158.73mA 101.79mA 235.79mA 4.70 158.81mA 101.88mA 235.87mA 4.80 158.89mA 101.96mA 235.94mA 4.90 158.97mA 102.08mA 236.02mA 5.00 159.05mA 101.98mA 236.09mA 5.10 159.03mA 101.88mA 236.07mA 5.20 159.01mA 102.00mA 236.04mA 5.30 159.09mA 102.10mA 235.91mA 5.40 159.04mA 102.20mA 235.89mA 5.50 158.73mA 102.10mA 235.76mA 5.60 158.13mA 102.20mA 235.64mA 5.70 157.92mA 102.20mA 235.41mA 5.80 158.36mA 101.80mA 235.28mA 5.90 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.97mA 6.00 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.25mA 6.40 157.60mA 102.00mA 232.97mA 6.80 158.00mA 102.00mA 232.20mA 7.20 156.00mA 101.00mA 231.00mA 7.60 156.00mA 101.00mA 230.00mA 8.00 155.00mA 101.00mA 229.00mA 8.40 155.00mA 101.00mA 228.00mA 8.80 155.00mA 101.00mA 226.00mA 9.20 154.00mA 100.00mA 225.00mA 9.60 153.00mA 100.00mA 224.00mA 10.00 153.00mA 99.00mA 222.00mA From owner-ibis Fri Aug 11 10:43:03 2000 Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7BHh0f17107 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gda.Cadence.COM (gda.Cadence.COM [158.140.106.10]) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03532; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cadence.com (d158140105215 [158.140.105.215]) by gda.Cadence.COM (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26732; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39943A15.AD315425@cadence.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:38:29 -0400 From: Ian Dodd Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'Olli Timonen'" CC: IBIS Subject: Re: problem with a model References: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987098C50@FMSMSX34> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received: By mailgate.Cadence.COM as KAA03532 at Fri Aug 11 10:39:27 2000 Olli, I have also seen this when generating models for TTL glue logic when using SPICE2IBIS. I presume this indicates that the SPICE transistor level model was only designed to work over a limited range of voltages. Ian Dodd "Muranyi, Arpad" wrote: > > Olli, > > This can happen if the IV curve is made from lab > measurements and they sweep it to slowly. The chip > heats up and consequently the current goes down. > > Arpad Muranyi > Intel Corporation > ==================================================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: Olli Timonen [mailto:Olli.Timonen@tellabs.com] > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 2:22 AM > To: IBIS > Subject: problem with a model > > Hi! > > I have a problem with one IBIS model. The current of a pulldown starts > to decrease after about 5V. How is this possible? What causes this kind > of occurrences and is there any kind of solutions to fix this kind of a > model? > > The [Pulldown] of a model in question is below. > > Regards, > Olli > > |************************************************************************ > > | Model Buffer > |************************************************************************ > > | > [Model] Buffer > Model_type 3-state > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-High > Vinl = 0.00V > Vinh = 5.00V > C_comp 5.00pF 5.00pF 5.00pF > | > | > [Temperature Range] 25.00 100.00 -40.00 > > [Voltage Range] 5.00V 4.50V 5.50V > [Pulldown] > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > | > -5.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA 0.00A > -4.60 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A > -4.20 -1.00mA -1.00mA -1000.00uA > -3.80 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA > -3.40 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA > -3.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -1.00mA > -2.60 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -2.00mA > -2.20 -1.00mA 0.00A -2.00mA > -1.80 -2.00mA -2.00mA -3.00mA > -1.40 -3.50mA -2.00mA -5.80mA > -1.00 -10.70mA -4.60mA -37.60mA > -0.90 -19.70mA -6.50mA -83.83mA > -0.80 -43.09mA -10.50mA -93.72mA > -0.70 -53.81mA -20.14mA -85.15mA > -0.60 -48.13mA -28.69mA -75.24mA > -0.50 -41.67mA -26.51mA -65.04mA > -0.40 -34.83mA -22.15mA -54.70mA > -0.30 -27.32mA -17.29mA -43.21mA > -0.20 -19.06mA -12.00mA -30.38mA > -0.10 -10.00mA -6.25mA -16.04mA > 0.00 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A > 0.10 10.61mA 6.62mA 16.95mA > 0.20 21.06mA 13.28mA 33.15mA > 0.30 31.04mA 19.69mA 48.53mA > 0.40 40.58mA 25.83mA 63.11mA > 0.50 49.67mA 31.71mA 76.92mA > 0.60 58.31mA 37.32mA 89.97mA > 0.70 66.54mA 42.66mA 102.32mA > 0.80 74.33mA 47.74mA 113.91mA > 0.90 81.73mA 52.57mA 124.89mA > 1.00 88.71mA 57.14mA 135.18mA > 1.10 95.29mA 61.45mA 144.77mA > 1.20 101.53mA 65.51mA 153.85mA > 1.30 107.31mA 69.32mA 162.24mA > 1.40 112.70mA 72.88mA 170.12mA > 1.50 117.78mA 76.19mA 177.41mA > 1.60 122.47mA 79.26mA 184.09mA > 1.70 126.85mA 82.09mA 190.38mA > 1.80 130.83mA 84.68mA 196.06mA > 1.90 134.52mA 87.04mA 201.25mA > 2.00 137.90mA 89.16mA 206.03mA > 2.10 140.89mA 91.06mA 210.31mA > 2.20 143.57mA 92.73mA 214.20mA > 2.30 145.95mA 94.18mA 217.58mA > 2.40 148.04mA 95.40mA 220.56mA > 2.50 149.82mA 96.42mA 223.14mA > 2.60 151.30mA 97.23mA 225.32mA > 2.70 152.48mA 97.82mA 227.11mA > 2.80 153.47mA 98.21mA 228.59mA > 2.90 154.15mA 98.50mA 229.67mA > 3.00 154.53mA 98.79mA 230.45mA > 3.10 155.01mA 99.06mA 231.03mA > 3.20 155.29mA 99.28mA 231.51mA > 3.30 155.68mA 99.57mA 231.99mA > 3.40 156.06mA 99.85mA 232.46mA > 3.50 156.34mA 100.04mA 232.84mA > 3.60 156.62mA 100.23mA 233.32mA > 3.70 156.90mA 100.41mA 233.70mA > 3.80 157.18mA 100.60mA 233.98mA > 3.90 157.46mA 100.79mA 234.35mA > 4.00 157.64mA 100.97mA 234.63mA > 4.10 157.92mA 101.16mA 234.91mA > 4.20 158.11mA 101.35mA 235.09mA > 4.30 158.29mA 101.43mA 235.36mA > 4.40 158.47mA 101.62mA 235.54mA > 4.50 158.55mA 101.70mA 235.71mA > 4.60 158.73mA 101.79mA 235.79mA > 4.70 158.81mA 101.88mA 235.87mA > 4.80 158.89mA 101.96mA 235.94mA > 4.90 158.97mA 102.08mA 236.02mA > 5.00 159.05mA 101.98mA 236.09mA > 5.10 159.03mA 101.88mA 236.07mA > 5.20 159.01mA 102.00mA 236.04mA > 5.30 159.09mA 102.10mA 235.91mA > 5.40 159.04mA 102.20mA 235.89mA > 5.50 158.73mA 102.10mA 235.76mA > 5.60 158.13mA 102.20mA 235.64mA > 5.70 157.92mA 102.20mA 235.41mA > 5.80 158.36mA 101.80mA 235.28mA > 5.90 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.97mA > 6.00 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.25mA > 6.40 157.60mA 102.00mA 232.97mA > 6.80 158.00mA 102.00mA 232.20mA > 7.20 156.00mA 101.00mA 231.00mA > 7.60 156.00mA 101.00mA 230.00mA > 8.00 155.00mA 101.00mA 229.00mA > 8.40 155.00mA 101.00mA 228.00mA > 8.80 155.00mA 101.00mA 226.00mA > 9.20 154.00mA 100.00mA 225.00mA > 9.60 153.00mA 100.00mA 224.00mA > 10.00 153.00mA 99.00mA 222.00mA From owner-ibis Fri Aug 11 10:55:57 2000 Received: from oliver.al.dynip.com (root@209-63-189-170.sea.jps.net [209.63.189.170]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7BHtrf17169; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by oliver.al.dynip.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13467; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:51:56 -0700 From: Al Davis To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: Overclocked driver schedule. Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 00:06:43 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00081100195002.10414@oliver.al.dynip.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What is the correct behavior for a simulator when driver schedule is overclocked? Consider this .... [Driver Schedule] foo 3.5ps 5ns NA NA .. this gives it an extra kick on a rising edge. The question ... What should happen when the device is triggered to fall 3ns after the rise begins? Some possibilities ..... 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) to turn off? 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the line was: foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA 3. Other? Should the standard be changed to clarify this? From owner-ibis Sun Aug 13 07:36:21 2000 Received: from galileo5.galileo.co.il (pop3.galileo.co.il [199.203.130.130]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7DEaDf23208 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 07:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.co.il (galileo89.galileo.co.il [10.3.10.89]) by galileo.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06760; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:32:52 +0200 (GMT-2) Sender: dan@galileo.co.il Message-ID: <3996BFA2.83AE4646@galileo.co.il> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:32:51 +0200 From: Dan Aleksandrowicz Organization: GALILEO Technology Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olli Timonen CC: IBIS Subject: Re: problem with a model References: <3993C5A9.8BFD5893@tellabs.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------35D463AADB41A36DE0D0C94E" --------------35D463AADB41A36DE0D0C94E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Olli. In case you are using the s2ibis software it seems that you are not using the correct version. There is a fix that increases the resolution to 4 decimal points. This is very important in pullup/pulldown curve which are manipulated (curve reduction) by the s2ibis software. The fix might do wonders to solve this issue. However, another tip might be is to gently fine tune your Vinh/Vinl like: [vil] 0.6 0.6 0.5 [vih] 1.6 1.6 1.6 This method did solve a lot of problems. Also in case you are using Hspice I recommend removing ALL .options from the spice file. You might be increasing the error tolerance to get convergence. Doing so will give such results. For more tips and ideas you are welcome to contact me. Olli Timonen wrote: > Hi! > > I have a problem with one IBIS model. The current of a pulldown starts > to decrease after about 5V. How is this possible? What causes this kind > of occurrences and is there any kind of solutions to fix this kind of a > model? > > The [Pulldown] of a model in question is below. > > Regards, > Olli > > |************************************************************************ > > | Model Buffer > |************************************************************************ > > | > [Model] Buffer > Model_type 3-state > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-High > Vinl = 0.00V > Vinh = 5.00V > C_comp 5.00pF 5.00pF 5.00pF > | > | > [Temperature Range] 25.00 100.00 -40.00 > > [Voltage Range] 5.00V 4.50V 5.50V > [Pulldown] > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > | > -5.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA 0.00A > -4.60 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A > -4.20 -1.00mA -1.00mA -1000.00uA > -3.80 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA > -3.40 -1.00mA 0.00A -1.00mA > -3.00 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -1.00mA > -2.60 -1000.00uA -1000.00uA -2.00mA > -2.20 -1.00mA 0.00A -2.00mA > -1.80 -2.00mA -2.00mA -3.00mA > -1.40 -3.50mA -2.00mA -5.80mA > -1.00 -10.70mA -4.60mA -37.60mA > -0.90 -19.70mA -6.50mA -83.83mA > -0.80 -43.09mA -10.50mA -93.72mA > -0.70 -53.81mA -20.14mA -85.15mA > -0.60 -48.13mA -28.69mA -75.24mA > -0.50 -41.67mA -26.51mA -65.04mA > -0.40 -34.83mA -22.15mA -54.70mA > -0.30 -27.32mA -17.29mA -43.21mA > -0.20 -19.06mA -12.00mA -30.38mA > -0.10 -10.00mA -6.25mA -16.04mA > 0.00 0.00A 0.00A 0.00A > 0.10 10.61mA 6.62mA 16.95mA > 0.20 21.06mA 13.28mA 33.15mA > 0.30 31.04mA 19.69mA 48.53mA > 0.40 40.58mA 25.83mA 63.11mA > 0.50 49.67mA 31.71mA 76.92mA > 0.60 58.31mA 37.32mA 89.97mA > 0.70 66.54mA 42.66mA 102.32mA > 0.80 74.33mA 47.74mA 113.91mA > 0.90 81.73mA 52.57mA 124.89mA > 1.00 88.71mA 57.14mA 135.18mA > 1.10 95.29mA 61.45mA 144.77mA > 1.20 101.53mA 65.51mA 153.85mA > 1.30 107.31mA 69.32mA 162.24mA > 1.40 112.70mA 72.88mA 170.12mA > 1.50 117.78mA 76.19mA 177.41mA > 1.60 122.47mA 79.26mA 184.09mA > 1.70 126.85mA 82.09mA 190.38mA > 1.80 130.83mA 84.68mA 196.06mA > 1.90 134.52mA 87.04mA 201.25mA > 2.00 137.90mA 89.16mA 206.03mA > 2.10 140.89mA 91.06mA 210.31mA > 2.20 143.57mA 92.73mA 214.20mA > 2.30 145.95mA 94.18mA 217.58mA > 2.40 148.04mA 95.40mA 220.56mA > 2.50 149.82mA 96.42mA 223.14mA > 2.60 151.30mA 97.23mA 225.32mA > 2.70 152.48mA 97.82mA 227.11mA > 2.80 153.47mA 98.21mA 228.59mA > 2.90 154.15mA 98.50mA 229.67mA > 3.00 154.53mA 98.79mA 230.45mA > 3.10 155.01mA 99.06mA 231.03mA > 3.20 155.29mA 99.28mA 231.51mA > 3.30 155.68mA 99.57mA 231.99mA > 3.40 156.06mA 99.85mA 232.46mA > 3.50 156.34mA 100.04mA 232.84mA > 3.60 156.62mA 100.23mA 233.32mA > 3.70 156.90mA 100.41mA 233.70mA > 3.80 157.18mA 100.60mA 233.98mA > 3.90 157.46mA 100.79mA 234.35mA > 4.00 157.64mA 100.97mA 234.63mA > 4.10 157.92mA 101.16mA 234.91mA > 4.20 158.11mA 101.35mA 235.09mA > 4.30 158.29mA 101.43mA 235.36mA > 4.40 158.47mA 101.62mA 235.54mA > 4.50 158.55mA 101.70mA 235.71mA > 4.60 158.73mA 101.79mA 235.79mA > 4.70 158.81mA 101.88mA 235.87mA > 4.80 158.89mA 101.96mA 235.94mA > 4.90 158.97mA 102.08mA 236.02mA > 5.00 159.05mA 101.98mA 236.09mA > 5.10 159.03mA 101.88mA 236.07mA > 5.20 159.01mA 102.00mA 236.04mA > 5.30 159.09mA 102.10mA 235.91mA > 5.40 159.04mA 102.20mA 235.89mA > 5.50 158.73mA 102.10mA 235.76mA > 5.60 158.13mA 102.20mA 235.64mA > 5.70 157.92mA 102.20mA 235.41mA > 5.80 158.36mA 101.80mA 235.28mA > 5.90 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.97mA > 6.00 158.40mA 102.00mA 234.25mA > 6.40 157.60mA 102.00mA 232.97mA > 6.80 158.00mA 102.00mA 232.20mA > 7.20 156.00mA 101.00mA 231.00mA > 7.60 156.00mA 101.00mA 230.00mA > 8.00 155.00mA 101.00mA 229.00mA > 8.40 155.00mA 101.00mA 228.00mA > 8.80 155.00mA 101.00mA 226.00mA > 9.20 154.00mA 100.00mA 225.00mA > 9.60 153.00mA 100.00mA 224.00mA > 10.00 153.00mA 99.00mA 222.00mA -- \\|// (o o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Aleksandrowicz Galileo Technology Mercaz Ofek 1 (Building B') Northern Industrial Zone, LOD 71293, ISRAEL email:dan@galileo.co.il Tel: +972 8 9247555 (- Ext. 324 |__| |__| #|oo| |--| ___ _ _ |--| | | |\ |oo|) /\ __ \\ \\ |------------\| #|--\ _||- ____\ \__\\_\\__|_||_________________\___| |__v-___ \ / \ "Smoke on the water. Fire in the sky." / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------35D463AADB41A36DE0D0C94E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Olli.

In case you are using the s2ibis software it seems that you are
not using the correct version.
There is a fix that increases the resolution to 4 decimal points.
This is very important in pullup/pulldown curve which are
manipulated (curve reduction) by the s2ibis software.

The fix might do wonders to solve this issue.

However, another tip might be is to gently fine tune your Vinh/Vinl like:
[vil] 0.6 0.6 0.5
[vih] 1.6 1.6 1.6

This method did solve a lot of problems.

Also in case you are using Hspice I recommend removing ALL .options from
the spice file. You might be increasing the error tolerance to get convergence.
Doing so will give such results.

For more tips and ideas you are welcome to contact me.
 
 

Olli Timonen wrote:

Hi!

I have a problem with one IBIS model. The current of a pulldown starts
to decrease after about 5V. How is this possible? What causes this kind
of occurrences and is there any kind of solutions to fix this kind of a
model?

The [Pulldown] of a model in question is below.

Regards,
Olli

|************************************************************************

|                             Model Buffer
|************************************************************************

|
[Model]          Buffer
Model_type       3-state
Polarity         Non-Inverting
Enable           Active-High
Vinl =   0.00V
Vinh =   5.00V
C_comp           5.00pF              5.00pF              5.00pF
|
|
[Temperature Range]       25.00               100.00              -40.00

[Voltage Range]           5.00V               4.50V               5.50V
[Pulldown]
| voltage     I(typ)              I(min)              I(max)
|
  -5.00     -1000.00uA          -1000.00uA             0.00A
  -4.60        0.00A               0.00A               0.00A
  -4.20       -1.00mA             -1.00mA           -1000.00uA
  -3.80       -1.00mA              0.00A              -1.00mA
  -3.40       -1.00mA              0.00A              -1.00mA
  -3.00     -1000.00uA          -1000.00uA            -1.00mA
  -2.60     -1000.00uA          -1000.00uA            -2.00mA
  -2.20       -1.00mA              0.00A              -2.00mA
  -1.80       -2.00mA             -2.00mA             -3.00mA
  -1.40       -3.50mA             -2.00mA             -5.80mA
  -1.00      -10.70mA             -4.60mA            -37.60mA
  -0.90      -19.70mA             -6.50mA            -83.83mA
  -0.80      -43.09mA            -10.50mA            -93.72mA
  -0.70      -53.81mA            -20.14mA            -85.15mA
  -0.60      -48.13mA            -28.69mA            -75.24mA
  -0.50      -41.67mA            -26.51mA            -65.04mA
  -0.40      -34.83mA            -22.15mA            -54.70mA
  -0.30      -27.32mA            -17.29mA            -43.21mA
  -0.20      -19.06mA            -12.00mA            -30.38mA
  -0.10      -10.00mA             -6.25mA            -16.04mA
   0.00        0.00A               0.00A               0.00A
   0.10       10.61mA              6.62mA             16.95mA
   0.20       21.06mA             13.28mA             33.15mA
   0.30       31.04mA             19.69mA             48.53mA
   0.40       40.58mA             25.83mA             63.11mA
   0.50       49.67mA             31.71mA             76.92mA
   0.60       58.31mA             37.32mA             89.97mA
   0.70       66.54mA             42.66mA            102.32mA
   0.80       74.33mA             47.74mA            113.91mA
   0.90       81.73mA             52.57mA            124.89mA
   1.00       88.71mA             57.14mA            135.18mA
   1.10       95.29mA             61.45mA            144.77mA
   1.20      101.53mA             65.51mA            153.85mA
   1.30      107.31mA             69.32mA            162.24mA
   1.40      112.70mA             72.88mA            170.12mA
   1.50      117.78mA             76.19mA            177.41mA
   1.60      122.47mA             79.26mA            184.09mA
   1.70      126.85mA             82.09mA            190.38mA
   1.80      130.83mA             84.68mA            196.06mA
   1.90      134.52mA             87.04mA            201.25mA
   2.00      137.90mA             89.16mA            206.03mA
   2.10      140.89mA             91.06mA            210.31mA
   2.20      143.57mA             92.73mA            214.20mA
   2.30      145.95mA             94.18mA            217.58mA
   2.40      148.04mA             95.40mA            220.56mA
   2.50      149.82mA             96.42mA            223.14mA
   2.60      151.30mA             97.23mA            225.32mA
   2.70      152.48mA             97.82mA            227.11mA
   2.80      153.47mA             98.21mA            228.59mA
   2.90      154.15mA             98.50mA            229.67mA
   3.00      154.53mA             98.79mA            230.45mA
   3.10      155.01mA             99.06mA            231.03mA
   3.20      155.29mA             99.28mA            231.51mA
   3.30      155.68mA             99.57mA            231.99mA
   3.40      156.06mA             99.85mA            232.46mA
   3.50      156.34mA            100.04mA            232.84mA
   3.60      156.62mA            100.23mA            233.32mA
   3.70      156.90mA            100.41mA            233.70mA
   3.80      157.18mA            100.60mA            233.98mA
   3.90      157.46mA            100.79mA            234.35mA
   4.00      157.64mA            100.97mA            234.63mA
   4.10      157.92mA            101.16mA            234.91mA
   4.20      158.11mA            101.35mA            235.09mA
   4.30      158.29mA            101.43mA            235.36mA
   4.40      158.47mA            101.62mA            235.54mA
   4.50      158.55mA            101.70mA            235.71mA
   4.60      158.73mA            101.79mA            235.79mA
   4.70      158.81mA            101.88mA            235.87mA
   4.80      158.89mA            101.96mA            235.94mA
   4.90      158.97mA            102.08mA            236.02mA
   5.00      159.05mA            101.98mA            236.09mA
   5.10      159.03mA            101.88mA            236.07mA
   5.20      159.01mA            102.00mA            236.04mA
   5.30      159.09mA            102.10mA            235.91mA
   5.40      159.04mA            102.20mA            235.89mA
   5.50      158.73mA            102.10mA            235.76mA
   5.60      158.13mA            102.20mA            235.64mA
   5.70      157.92mA            102.20mA            235.41mA
   5.80      158.36mA            101.80mA            235.28mA
   5.90      158.40mA            102.00mA            234.97mA
   6.00      158.40mA            102.00mA            234.25mA
   6.40      157.60mA            102.00mA            232.97mA
   6.80      158.00mA            102.00mA            232.20mA
   7.20      156.00mA            101.00mA            231.00mA
   7.60      156.00mA            101.00mA            230.00mA
   8.00      155.00mA            101.00mA            229.00mA
   8.40      155.00mA            101.00mA            228.00mA
   8.80      155.00mA            101.00mA            226.00mA
   9.20      154.00mA            100.00mA            225.00mA
   9.60      153.00mA            100.00mA            224.00mA
  10.00      153.00mA             99.00mA            222.00mA

-- 
                \\|//
                (o o)
~~~~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Aleksandrowicz
Galileo Technology 
Mercaz Ofek 1   (Building B') 
Northern Industrial Zone, LOD 71293,  ISRAEL 
email:dan@galileo.co.il
Tel: +972 8 9247555    (-                    
     Ext. 324         |__|
                      |__|
                     #|oo| |--|   ___
           _  _    |--|  | |  |\ |oo|)        /\
       __  \\ \\   |------------\| #|--\     _||-
   ____\ \__\\_\\__|_||_________________\___|   |__v-___
   \                                                   /
    \      "Smoke on the water. Fire in the sky."     /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  --------------35D463AADB41A36DE0D0C94E-- From owner-ibis Sun Aug 13 22:43:12 2000 Received: from ups.cisco.com (ups.cisco.com [171.69.18.21]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7E5hBf24237 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ups.cisco.com (ups.cisco.com [171.69.18.21]) by ups.cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA26951 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200008140540.WAA26951@ups.cisco.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:40:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Reply-To: Syed Huq Subject: Tco Min and Max timing test loads To: ibis-users@vhdl.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 7abeJ/ffgm+L6KJ3CCulfA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4u sparc Hi, We are coming across various vendor specifications where Tco Min and Tco Max have different AC test loads. In IBIS, Vmeas, Cref, Rref and Vref allows ONE test load definations for all Typ, Min and Max case. How do the users deal with this and are they plans of adding timing test load information based on Min or Max conditions. Syed Cisco Systems, Inc From owner-ibis Mon Aug 14 13:12:43 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7EKCef26490 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exgw.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA13584; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com by exgw.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.33R) id NAA04668; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:03 -0700 Message-ID: <0B30C465AF9FD311BB6B00508B449DEE0470A31F@svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com> From: "Beal, Weston" To: "'Al Davis'" , ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: Overclocked driver schedule. Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0062B.A1524E20" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0062B.A1524E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Al, The few cases I've seen that use [driver_schedule] use the clock as the timing key anyway. The comments in the file state the model is only accurate at a certain clock frequency and the parameters need to be changed in order to work at a different clock frequency. I would make the master stimulus a real master and force drivers to follow it. Later, Weston + -----Original Message----- + From: Al Davis [mailto:aldavis@ieee.org] + Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:07 AM + To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org + Subject: Overclocked driver schedule. + + + What is the correct behavior for a simulator when driver + schedule is overclocked? + + Consider this .... + + [Driver Schedule] + foo 3.5ps 5ns NA NA + + .. this gives it an extra kick on a rising edge. + + The question ... + + What should happen when the device is triggered to fall 3ns + after the rise begins? + + Some possibilities ..... + + 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) to turn + off? + + 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the line was: + foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA + + 3. Other? + + + Should the standard be changed to clarify this? + ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0062B.A1524E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Overclocked driver schedule.

Al,

The few cases I've seen that use [driver_schedule] = use the clock as the timing key anyway.  The comments in the file = state the model is only accurate at a certain clock frequency and the = parameters need to be changed in order to work at a different clock = frequency.  I would make the master stimulus a real master and = force drivers to follow it.

Later,
Weston

+ -----Original Message-----
+ From: Al Davis [mailto:aldavis@ieee.org]
+ Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:07 AM
+ To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
+ Subject: Overclocked driver schedule.
+
+
+ What is the correct behavior for a simulator when = driver
+ schedule is overclocked?
+
+ Consider this ....
+
+ [Driver Schedule]
+ foo  3.5ps  5ns  NA  NA
+
+ ..  this gives it an extra kick on a rising = edge.
+
+ The question ...
+
+ What should happen when the device is triggered to = fall 3ns
+ after the rise begins?
+
+ Some possibilities .....
+
+ 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) = to turn
+ off?
+
+ 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the = line was:
+ foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA
+
+ 3. Other?
+
+
+ Should the standard be changed to clarify = this?
+

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0062B.A1524E20-- From owner-ibis Mon Aug 14 15:12:47 2000 Received: from genesis-microchip.on.ca (mail.genesis-microchip.com [209.47.22.10] (may be forged)) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id e7EMCjf26794 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MARKDOM-Message_Server by genesis-microchip.on.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:13:44 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:13:42 -0400 From: "Eric Hui" To: Cc: "John Chan" Subject: POWER_CLAMP for 3-state Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by server.eda.org id e7EMDhf26795 This is not necessary a program-specific question. But just as a background info, I downloaded the program <>, and I am trying Example 4. I have a question about the "3-state" model. When I ran the conversion, I notice that the SPICE-to-IBIS program did the following to measure POWER_CLAMP: 1. Supply VDD=3.3V. 2. Supply VDD_clamp=5.0V. 3. Disable output (i.e. put in high impedance state). 4. Put input pin to high (+Vdd) = 3.3 V. 5. Sweep output pin voltage from (+Vdd_clamp)=5.0V to (+Vdd_clamp+Vdd)=5.0V+3.3V=8.8V, and measure the current at output pin. 6. Record the I-V table (using the vcc-reference-formula: V_table = Vdd_clamp - V_applied. e.g. -3.3V = 5.0V - 8.8V). The converison ran fine, without any harming errors, and an IBIS file was generated. I am now trying to use this IBIS file (as blackboxes) in my HSPICE simulation. My HSPICE simulator expects that when V_table = 0, the correspoinding current should be 0 amps. When V_table = 0, V_applied 5.0V (see formula above). I am having a problem, because obviously there is a non-zero current when there is a drop of voltage (between 5.0V and 3.3V). My question is: Did the SPICE-to-IBIS measure the POWER_CLAMP incorrectly? or, did my HPSPICE simulator expect something unreasonable (zero current at zero voltage)? or, did I do something wrong? Please reply. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! PS: My IBIS model is of version 2.1. From owner-ibis Tue Aug 15 09:41:29 2000 Received: from mailgate2.Cadence.COM (mailgate2.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.31]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7FGfQf29902 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM (zip.Cadence.COM [158.140.103.36]) by mailgate2.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15562 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cadence.com (zip [158.140.103.36]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14337; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Sender: mrl@cadence.com Message-ID: <3999721C.F92FDCCF@cadence.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:38:52 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS Models web page update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received: By mailgate2.Cadence.COM as JAA15562 at Tue Aug 15 09:38:53 2000 The IBIS Models web page at http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/models.htm has been updated. There are some new links, thanks to Bob Ross and Roy Leventhal. When the update was tested only 2 links were failing (AMI and International Microelectronics). Any suggestions for corrections, additions, or enhancements to this web page are welcome. Please send them to me (as IBIS Librarian). Mike LaBonte Cadence Design Systems From owner-ibis Thu Aug 17 13:02:44 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7HK2gf09932; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs01-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.201]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.30 2000/06/08 18:25:35 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id UAA12653; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:01:07 GMT Received: from fmsmsx27.FM.INTEL.COM ([132.233.48.27]) by 132.233.48.201 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:00:08 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx27.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987098C84@FMSMSX34> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'Al Davis'" , ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: Overclocked driver schedule. Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:00:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Al, This is what the spec says: | Rise_on_dly is the amount of time that elapses from the | internal simulator pulse initiating a RISING edge to the | t=0 time of the waveform or ramp that turns the I-V table of | the PULLUP device ON, and the t=0 time of the waveform or | ramp that turns the I-V table of the PULLDOWN device OFF (if | they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by | another event). So, if the rise on delay is 3.5ns, and the logic high pulse is less that in duration, that means that the t0 time for this scheduled pullup device never happened. So it should not even begin to turn on. The pulldown that was holding the signal low prior to this rising edge is turned off earlier by the rising edge when the signal level goes above Vinl. Therefore the answer is NO to both 1) and 2). I hope this clarifies what to do. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ========================================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Al Davis [mailto:aldavis@ieee.org] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:07 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: Overclocked driver schedule. What is the correct behavior for a simulator when driver schedule is overclocked? Consider this .... [Driver Schedule] foo 3.5ps 5ns NA NA .. this gives it an extra kick on a rising edge. The question ... What should happen when the device is triggered to fall 3ns after the rise begins? Some possibilities ..... 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) to turn off? 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the line was: foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA 3. Other? Should the standard be changed to clarify this? From owner-ibis Thu Aug 17 14:53:00 2000 Received: from mail019.mail.onemain.com (SMTP-OUT001.ONEMAIN.COM [63.208.208.71]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id e7HLqwf10313 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7129 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2000 21:50:20 -0000 Received: from table.jps.net ([216.119.0.144]) (envelope-sender ) by mail019.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Aug 2000 21:50:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "Muranyi, Arpad" cc: "'Al Davis'" , ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: Overclocked driver schedule. In-Reply-To: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987098C84@FMSMSX34> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > So, if the rise on delay is 3.5ns, and the logic high pulse is less that in > duration, that means that the t0 time for this scheduled pullup device never > happened. So it should not even begin to turn on. The pulldown that was > holding the signal low prior to this rising edge is turned off earlier by > the rising edge when the signal level goes above Vinl. > > Therefore the answer is NO to both 1) and 2). That one is obvious, but I said the rise on delay was 3.5 PICO seconds, so it DID turn on since the pulse width was 2 ns. So, it doesn't apply to the case I asked about. Given that it did turn on, when should it turn off? > -----Original Message----- > What is the correct behavior for a simulator when driver > schedule is overclocked? > > Consider this .... > > [Driver Schedule] > foo 3.5ps 5ns NA NA > > .. this gives it an extra kick on a rising edge. > > The question ... > > What should happen when the device is triggered to fall 3ns > after the rise begins? > > Some possibilities ..... > > 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) to turn > off? > > 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the line was: > foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA > > 3. Other? > > > Should the standard be changed to clarify this? From owner-ibis Thu Aug 17 16:38:39 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7HNccf10544; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs05-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.205]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.30 2000/06/08 18:25:35 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id XAA03963; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:37:03 GMT Received: from fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com ([132.233.48.28]) by 132.233.48.205 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:36:04 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:36:02 -0700 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987098C86@FMSMSX34> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'atd@table.jps.net'" Cc: "'Al Davis'" , ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: Overclocked driver schedule. Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:35:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Al, Sorry for that, I misread your first posting. In this case it should be 1), but I need to clarify it to make sure we mean the same thing. On the rising edge the kicker you describe turns on with the 3.5 ps delay. A timer in the buffer will start and shut it off 5 ns later. If the input to the buffer goes low in the meantime, the normal part of the buffer should switch high to low, but the kicker part should remain high until the timer (5 ns) expires. This will result in a crowbar current between the kicker and the pulldown. So I would question whether this is what the model maker (or buffer designer) really had in mind, but this is how the IBIS spec should be interpreted. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation =========================================================== -----Original Message----- From: atd@table.jps.net [mailto:atd@table.jps.net] Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 2:55 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad Cc: 'Al Davis'; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: Overclocked driver schedule. On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > So, if the rise on delay is 3.5ns, and the logic high pulse is less that in > duration, that means that the t0 time for this scheduled pullup device never > happened. So it should not even begin to turn on. The pulldown that was > holding the signal low prior to this rising edge is turned off earlier by > the rising edge when the signal level goes above Vinl. > > Therefore the answer is NO to both 1) and 2). That one is obvious, but I said the rise on delay was 3.5 PICO seconds, so it DID turn on since the pulse width was 2 ns. So, it doesn't apply to the case I asked about. Given that it did turn on, when should it turn off? > -----Original Message----- > What is the correct behavior for a simulator when driver > schedule is overclocked? > > Consider this .... > > [Driver Schedule] > foo 3.5ps 5ns NA NA > > .. this gives it an extra kick on a rising edge. > > The question ... > > What should happen when the device is triggered to fall 3ns > after the rise begins? > > Some possibilities ..... > > 1. It waits another 2 ns (for the total of 5 ns) to turn > off? > > 2. It turns off on the falling edge? as if the line was: > foo 3.5ps 5ns 0ns NA > > 3. Other? > > > Should the standard be changed to clarify this? From owner-ibis Mon Aug 21 14:12:55 2000 Received: from genesis-microchip.on.ca (mail.genesis-microchip.com [209.47.22.10] (may be forged)) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id e7LLCqD26649 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MARKDOM-Message_Server by genesis-microchip.on.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:14:01 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:13:30 -0400 From: "Eric Hui" To: Cc: "John Chan" Subject: SPICE-to-IBIS conversion for I/O Buffer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by server.eda.org id e7LLElD26650 I am trying to create an IBIS model for an I/O buffer using the following SPICE-to-IBIS conversion program that I downloaded. SPICE-to-IBIS conversion(IBISv2.1): North Carolina State University By inspecting all the SPICE files that the conversion program created, I found out that it never supplied any voltage at the input pin and the enable pin, not even for [RAMP] measurement. Is this a bug in the conversion program, or did I miss something (or parameters)? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. PS: I have tried the conversion program for input, output, and 3-state. They are all fine during the conversion without the problem described above. Yours truly, Eric Hui. From owner-ibis Mon Aug 21 17:21:14 2000 Received: from ups.cisco.com (ups.cisco.com [171.69.18.21]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7M0LDD27049 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ups.cisco.com (ups.cisco.com [171.69.18.21]) by ups.cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16487; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200008220018.RAA16487@ups.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Reply-To: Syed Huq Subject: Re: SPICE-to-IBIS conversion for I/O Buffer To: ibis-users@eda.org, Erichui@genesis-microchip.com Cc: Johnc@genesis-microchip.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: Nj24ANA92f0wKHJoasGZNQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4u sparc Eric, I think you are missing something. If your conversion worked for Output and 3-state, you must have defined a input/enable pin in your .s2i file. This is necessary to put the output in High/Low/Tri-state modes by SPICE. This same Input pin information will be used for [Ramp] or V/T waveforms. For example, if this is part of the .s2i file defining the Input and Output models: | | Node Signal Model [Pin] 1 gg gnd GND 2 vv vdd POWER 3 a A MyDevice_IN 4 b0 B0 MyDevice_OUT -> 3 | Your s2ibis2 generated [Ramp] .spi file should look like this: . . RLOADS2I b0 vv 50 # Pin b0 is an Output VCCS2I vv 0 DC 3.3 VGNDS2I gg 0 DC 0 VINS2I a 0 PULSE(2 0.8 0 1e-10 1e-10 2e-08 4.04e-08) # Pin 'a' is input .TEMP 27 .OPTIONS INGOLD=2 .TRAN 1e-10 1e-08 .PRINT TRAN V(b0) . . Hope this helps. Syed Cisco Systems, Inc > > I am trying to create an IBIS model for an I/O buffer using the following SPICE-to-IBIS conversion program that I downloaded. > > SPICE-to-IBIS conversion(IBISv2.1): North Carolina State University > > > By inspecting all the SPICE files that the conversion program created, I found out that it never supplied any voltage at the input pin and the enable pin, not even for [RAMP] measurement. Is this a bug in the conversion program, or did I miss something (or parameters)? > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > PS: I have tried the conversion program for input, output, and 3-state. They are all fine during the conversion without the problem described above. > > Yours truly, > Eric Hui. > > From owner-ibis Tue Aug 22 13:46:41 2000 Received: from mail.nesa.com (mail.nesa.com [204.240.29.34]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7MKkUD01096; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porky (porky.nesa.com [204.240.29.45]) by mail.nesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02089; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:43:47 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000822164344.009c99b0@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:43:44 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: Call for Participation at IBIS Summit Meeting - Sept. 14th Cc: ee@nesa.com, slattery@nesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION, PRESENTATIONS & SPONSORSHIP!!!! ------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, September 14, 2000 Location: The Crowne Plaza Hotel (NEW LOCATION) 10 Lincoln Square Worcester, MA Tel: (508) 791-1600 Fax: (508) 791-1796 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA), Cadence Design Systems, HyperLynx, Mentor Graphics, IBIS Users Group Others to be determined WE ARE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL SPONSORS! (contact Kathy Breda, breda@nesa.com or Bob Ross, bob_ross@mentororg.com) PCB Conference: September 11-15, 2000 East Worcester's Centrum Centre Worcester, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. BACKGROUND The IBIS Users Group (IBIS East) has been formed under the leadership of Dr. Edward Sayre from North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA) and has been meeting to consider and forward IBIS model user concerns. As a result of East coast meetings, the group has developed an IBIS Accuracy Handbook document and has initiated the project to format Connector Models. These topics plus others of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum will be discussed at this meeting. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentation are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Send to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: Overhead Projections Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by September 8, 2000. Otherwise the presenter will be expected to provide 50 copies for distribution. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com) AGENDA The agenda includes some presentations and an opportunity for open discussions. Lunch will be provided along with refreshments at the breaks. The final agenda will be developed based on presentation proposals that are received. So far the following presentations are tentatively planned: IBIS Present and Future - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Roy Leventhal, 3Com, - "IBIS and SI at 3Com" - Roy Leventhal, 3Com (Presented by Mike LaBonte, Cadence) IBIS-X and Futures Discussion - Mike LaBonte, Cadence Code Based Models - Tudor Secasiu, Intel IBIS Connector Specification and Discussion - Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx IBIS Swath Matrix Expansion - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See http://www.pcbeast.com for travel directions, hotels and other information. ************************************************************** +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. | | ------------------------------------- | | "High Performance Engineering & Design" | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | Kathy Breda e-mail: breda@nesa.com | | NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ | | 636 Great Road Tel +1.978.897-8787 | | Stow, MA 01775 USA Fax +1.978.897-5359 | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ From owner-ibis Wed Aug 23 07:22:21 2000 Received: from beta.dmz-eu.st.com (beta.dmz-eu.st.com [164.129.1.35]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7NEMID03982 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eux100.sgp.st.com (eux100.sgp.st.com [164.129.225.7]) by beta.dmz-eu.st.com (STMicroelectronics) with ESMTP id 3D23949A3 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:19:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by eux100.sgp.st.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA09734 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:18:52 +0200 (METDST) From: sandro.ferreri@st.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:18:24 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: Support abuot IBIS MODEL MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sandro.ferreri@st.com To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Support" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Support" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hallo, I work in STMicroelectronic and I'm involved in the IBIS MODEL to provide to our customers. In your web page I read that it's possible to have a confidential support concerning some models already realized. I'd like to know the E-mail address where this support is available. Thank you in advance for your feedback. Best regards Sandro From owner-ibis Wed Aug 23 09:36:40 2000 Received: from mailgate2.Cadence.COM (mailgate2.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.31]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7NGabD04608 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM (zip.Cadence.COM [158.140.103.36]) by mailgate2.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08155; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cadence.com (zip [158.140.103.36]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02573; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Sender: mrl@cadence.com Message-ID: <39A3FCF3.2C16A32E@cadence.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:33:55 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sandro.ferreri@st.com CC: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Support abuot IBIS MODEL References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received: By mailgate2.Cadence.COM as JAA08155 at Wed Aug 23 09:33:58 2000 Sandro, The IBIS Support web page at http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm gives the address as mailto:mbflora@hyperlynx.com Mike LaBonte Cadence Design Systems sandro.ferreri@st.com wrote: > > Hallo, > > I work in STMicroelectronic and I'm involved in the IBIS MODEL to provide > to our customers. In your web page I read that it's possible to have a > confidential support concerning some models already realized. I'd like to > know the E-mail address where this support is available. > Thank you in advance for your feedback. > > Best regards Sandro From owner-ibis Wed Aug 23 10:40:42 2000 Received: from msgbas1tx.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1tx.cos.agilent.com [192.6.9.34]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7NHedD04835 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msgrel1.cos.agilent.com (msgrel1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.77]) by msgbas1tx.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600D219B for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axcsbh4.cs.itc.hp.com (axcsbh4.cs.itc.hp.com [15.69.24.36]) by msgrel1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1089D59 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 15.69.24.36 by axcsbh4.cs.itc.hp.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:38:00 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time) Received: by axcsbh4.cs.itc.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:38:00 -0600 Message-ID: From: mark_chang@agilent.com To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: can ibis support CML signals Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:37:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, Can IBIS support CML signals? Thanks for any feedback. Regards, Mark Telnet: 312-5313 Tel No: (44) 1473 46 5313 From owner-ibis Thu Aug 24 05:08:26 2000 Received: from mercury.lss.emc.com (mercury.eng.emc.com [168.159.40.77]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7OC8MD08123 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 05:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.eng.emc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:11:22 -0400 Message-ID: <276737EB1EC5D311AB950090273BEFDD9E46BF@elway.lss.emc.com> From: "zanella, fabrizio" To: "'mark_chang@agilent.com'" , ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: RE: can ibis support CML signals Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:03:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, from what I've heard in the past on this posting, using IBIS models is not currently an accurate approach for simulating multi Gb/s serial signals, it's better to use spice models. Regards, Fabrizio Zanella EMC Corporation Hardware Engineering 508-435-2075, x14645 fzanella@emc.com -----Original Message----- From: mark_chang@agilent.com [mailto:mark_chang@agilent.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:38 PM To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: can ibis support CML signals Hi, Can IBIS support CML signals? Thanks for any feedback. Regards, Mark Telnet: 312-5313 Tel No: (44) 1473 46 5313 From owner-ibis Thu Aug 24 10:42:44 2000 Received: from iris-new.san-jose.tt.slb.com (iris.san-jose.tt.slb.com [163.188.105.47]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7OHgfD09027 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sagarwala-nt (sjdhcp-114-191 [163.188.114.191]) by iris-new.san-jose.tt.slb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA01672 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00ac01c00df1$f7d3b4a0$bf72bca3@sagarwala-nt.san-jose.tt.slb.com> From: "Muhammad S. Sagarwala" To: Subject: Making IBIS models of ECL devices Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:37:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C00DB7.4AF65DD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C00DB7.4AF65DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello My name is Muhammad. I have been trying to make Ibis models for a few Motorola ECL devices using the Spice Development Kit on the motorola web site. These are differential devices having differential inputs and outputs. =20 While generating the data for the power and ground clamp for input side, = I connected one input to VBB as described in the spice development kit and connected the other input to the swept voltage source. The VBB as specified in = the spice development kit is -1.325 (assuming VCC=3D0 and VEE=3D-5.2). Since = I am using VCC=3D2 and VEE=3D-3.2, I changed the value of VBB to 0.675. Is = this the right thing to do or am I overlooking something??? Secondly, I was trying to generate the VT curves for the output. The Motorola device is a Fanout Buffer. I don't know what input should I provide to the input of the output buffer. Can I use a generic pulse signal with a risetime that would be close to the real signal or should I change/degrade the risetime. Does anybody have any idea... I would really appreiciate if somebody could help me out with this... Cheers, Muhammad=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C00DB7.4AF65DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello


My name is Muhammad.  I have been trying to = make Ibis=20 models for a few
Motorola ECL devices using the Spice Development = Kit
on=20 the motorola web site.  These are differential devices=20 having
differential inputs and outputs. 

While = generating the=20 data for the power and ground clamp for input side, I
connected one = input to=20 VBB as described in the spice development kit and
connected
the = other=20 input to the swept voltage source.   The VBB as specified in=20 the
spice development kit is -1.325 (assuming VCC=3D0 and = VEE=3D-5.2). Since I=20 am
using VCC=3D2 and VEE=3D-3.2, I changed the value of VBB to = 0.675.  Is=20 this the
right thing to do or am I overlooking = something???

Secondly,=20 I was trying to generate the VT curves for the output.  = The
Motorola=20 device is a Fanout Buffer.  I don't know what input should = I
provide to=20 the input of the output
buffer.  Can I use a generic pulse = signal with a=20 risetime that would be
close to the real signal or should I = change/degrade=20 the risetime.  Does
anybody have any idea...

I would = really=20 appreiciate if somebody could help me out with=20 this...

Cheers,

Muhammad

 
------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C00DB7.4AF65DD0-- From owner-ibis Thu Aug 24 11:32:03 2000 Received: from morrison.matrox.com (morrison.matrox.com [204.50.136.19]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7OIW1D09191 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mtxmail@localhost) by morrison.matrox.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11245 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from venus.matrox.com(192.168.1.30) by morrison-250 via smap (V2.0) id xma011126; Thu, 24 Aug 00 14:29:01 -0400 Received: from matrox.com (calcium.matrox.com [192.168.158.6]) by venus.matrox.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7OIT0N19986 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Sender: jpietrar@matrox.com Message-ID: <39A5696C.25646BD8@matrox.com> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:29:00 -0400 From: Johnny Pietraroia Organization: Matrox X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: AGP model Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5FFA6E1F50BB5FD823D50EBB" --------------5FFA6E1F50BB5FD823D50EBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi this is my first post... i was just wondering, if anyone knows where i can get an IBIS model for the AGP port. i found a model at Intel's web site, but it seems to be incomplete. if anyone knows where i can get this model, i'd really apreciate it. thanks, johnny, --------------5FFA6E1F50BB5FD823D50EBB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
hi this is my first post...
i was just wondering, if anyone knows where i can get an IBIS model for the AGP port.
i found a model at Intel's web site, but it seems to be incomplete.
if anyone knows where i can get this model, i'd really apreciate it.
thanks,
johnny,
  --------------5FFA6E1F50BB5FD823D50EBB-- From owner-ibis Thu Aug 24 13:08:59 2000 Received: from zmamail03.zma.compaq.com (zmamail03.zma.compaq.com [161.114.64.103]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7OK8uD09578 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zmamail03.zma.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 12345) id 2B4FE4E22; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net (exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net [16.103.129.52]) by zmamail03.zma.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD0C4302; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:06:12 -0400 Message-ID: <212CC57E84B8D111AD780000F84AA04909484124@mroexc2.tay.cpqcorp.net> From: "Ingraham, Andrew" To: "'Johnny Pietraroia'" Cc: ibis-users@eda.org, "'si-list'" Subject: RE: AGP model Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:06:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain > i was just wondering, if anyone knows where i can get an IBIS model for > the AGP port. > i found a model at Intel's web site, but it seems to be incomplete. > if anyone knows where i can get this model, i'd really apreciate it. There are a few things you should do to the IBIS model on the Intel/AGP web site (http://www.agpforum.org/downloads/agp4xr2.txt) before using it. Evidently, the person who created this model doesn't know much about IBIS, because the model, as posted, is totally useless! Add some missing keyword lines to the file: [IBIS Ver] 2.1 [File Name] agp4xr2.ibs [File Rev] 0.2 [Component] AGP4X [Manufacturer] Generic | [Package] | Possible values are below; experiment! | typ min max R_pkg 0.1 NA NA L_pkg 5.0nH 2.0nH 15.0nH C_pkg 2.0pF 1.0pF 4.0pF | Max (C_pkg + C_comp) is 8pF. | [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin dummy IO_pin BAGP4X | With the above values, I scaled C_comp back so that its maximum was 4.0pF (C_comp + C_pkg = 8.0pF). It's somewhat arbitrary, so experiment with different combinations of C_comp, C_pkg, and L_pkg. ALL of the I-V table values in the model must be scaled by 1e-03 (divided by 1000). The posted model has all the currents in milliamps, whereas they are supposed to be in amps ... if only they had bothered to read the IBIS spec. The [Ramp] values are not quite consistent with the I-V curves, because the drive curves for AGP4X changed somewhat while the preliminary spec was firming up, whereas the [Ramp] values in the model are left over from an earlier model rev. So some simulators may give you a warning about that. As I recall, the dV/dt values are suitable, but the dV values by themselves don't quite agree with the I-V curves. Play around with the component values (R_pkg, L_pkg, C_pkg, C_comp) and/or substitute another package model to get different transient results. This is only a crude generic model and some freedom is possible in one's actual implementation, which may cause some subtle or not-so-subtle differences. Of course the model is only good for the buffers that use Vddq=1.5V, so it is no good for AGP2X chips, nor for the AGP4X pins that remain 3.3V. What amazes me is that this totally useless model has been on the AGP site for some 25 months now and nobody there bothered to do anything about it. Perhaps that shouldn't surprise me; after all, for several months now the AGP web site also has pointers to an ECR #50, but the referenced pages go no higher than ECR #48. So where are #49 and #50? As far as I can tell, this ECR #50 does not exist anywhere on the Web. Regards, Andy From owner-ibis Fri Aug 25 05:32:47 2000 Received: from geneva.cereva.com (fwuser@ip03.datx.com [209.213.90.252]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7PCWiT12395 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D60630D3600D411896F0090278D4E483CC994@spawn.cereva.com> From: "Haller, Robert" To: "'Ingraham, Andrew'" Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: AGP model Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:27:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Andy, It never ceases to amaze me how many IBIS models pulled from the web need to be fixed before they are usable. My recommendation would be (In parallel to fixing the model to be usable) feedback those problems and issues to the model creator ! Eventually they may not only get fix the model, but also the model creation process at the source. regards, bob p.s. Syed Huq did an excellent paper ("Effective Signal Integrity Analysis using IBIS models") at designcon last year which documents common problems and solutions. It won Best paper and I highly recommend it. Cereva Networks 3 Network drive Marlboro MA. 01752 Phone: 508-486-9660 X 3365 FAX: 508-486-9661 Email: rhaller@cereva.com -----Original Message----- From: Ingraham, Andrew [mailto:Andrew.Ingraham@compaq.com] Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 4:06 PM To: 'Johnny Pietraroia' Cc: ibis-users@eda.org; 'si-list' Subject: RE: AGP model > i was just wondering, if anyone knows where i can get an IBIS model for > the AGP port. > i found a model at Intel's web site, but it seems to be incomplete. > if anyone knows where i can get this model, i'd really apreciate it. There are a few things you should do to the IBIS model on the Intel/AGP web site (http://www.agpforum.org/downloads/agp4xr2.txt) before using it. Evidently, the person who created this model doesn't know much about IBIS, because the model, as posted, is totally useless! Add some missing keyword lines to the file: [IBIS Ver] 2.1 [File Name] agp4xr2.ibs [File Rev] 0.2 [Component] AGP4X [Manufacturer] Generic | [Package] | Possible values are below; experiment! | typ min max R_pkg 0.1 NA NA L_pkg 5.0nH 2.0nH 15.0nH C_pkg 2.0pF 1.0pF 4.0pF | Max (C_pkg + C_comp) is 8pF. | [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin dummy IO_pin BAGP4X | With the above values, I scaled C_comp back so that its maximum was 4.0pF (C_comp + C_pkg = 8.0pF). It's somewhat arbitrary, so experiment with different combinations of C_comp, C_pkg, and L_pkg. ALL of the I-V table values in the model must be scaled by 1e-03 (divided by 1000). The posted model has all the currents in milliamps, whereas they are supposed to be in amps ... if only they had bothered to read the IBIS spec. The [Ramp] values are not quite consistent with the I-V curves, because the drive curves for AGP4X changed somewhat while the preliminary spec was firming up, whereas the [Ramp] values in the model are left over from an earlier model rev. So some simulators may give you a warning about that. As I recall, the dV/dt values are suitable, but the dV values by themselves don't quite agree with the I-V curves. Play around with the component values (R_pkg, L_pkg, C_pkg, C_comp) and/or substitute another package model to get different transient results. This is only a crude generic model and some freedom is possible in one's actual implementation, which may cause some subtle or not-so-subtle differences. Of course the model is only good for the buffers that use Vddq=1.5V, so it is no good for AGP2X chips, nor for the AGP4X pins that remain 3.3V. What amazes me is that this totally useless model has been on the AGP site for some 25 months now and nobody there bothered to do anything about it. Perhaps that shouldn't surprise me; after all, for several months now the AGP web site also has pointers to an ECR #50, but the referenced pages go no higher than ECR #48. So where are #49 and #50? As far as I can tell, this ECR #50 does not exist anywhere on the Web. Regards, Andy From owner-ibis Fri Aug 25 05:38:04 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7PCc1T12409 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exgw.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id FAA24124; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svr-frp-exc-01.fra.mentorg.com by exgw.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.33R) id FAA09586; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com (zeus-46.metafr.mentorg.com [137.202.46.19]) by svr-frp-exc-01.fra.mentorg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id QZKN9A9J; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:35:13 +0100 Sender: yannn@exgw.mentorg.com Message-ID: <39A666EF.1A76BC95@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:30:39 +0200 From: Yann NOURY Reply-To: yann_noury@mentorg.com Organization: Meta system X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------258E94077385576174B1BA61" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------258E94077385576174B1BA61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe --------------258E94077385576174B1BA61 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="yann_noury.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Yann NOURY Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="yann_noury.vcf" begin:vcard n:yann;Noury x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Meta systems adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:yann_noury@mentor.com title:Hardware engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;14392 fn:Noury yann end:vcard --------------258E94077385576174B1BA61-- From owner-ibis Fri Aug 25 08:58:08 2000 Received: from beta.dmz-eu.st.com (beta.dmz-eu.st.com [164.129.1.35]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7PFw5T13028 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eux100.sgp.st.com (eux100.sgp.st.com [164.129.225.7]) by beta.dmz-eu.st.com (STMicroelectronics) with ESMTP id 87F6E48ED for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:55:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dais.cro.st.com (crx607.cro.st.com [164.129.44.107]) by eux100.sgp.st.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA07583; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:55:21 +0200 (METDST) Received: from crx822.crocrd (crx822 [164.129.45.122]) by dais.cro.st.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22377; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:52:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from st.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crx822.crocrd (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27545; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:52:56 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: bf5@dais.cro.st.com Message-ID: <39A69658.DE06F26F@st.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:52:56 +0200 From: Fabrice BOISSIERES Organization: STMICROELECTRONICS X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com, ibis-users@eda.org Cc: "BOISSIERES, Fabrice" Subject: cable model for UDMA and USB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, We need to have spice cable model of UDMA cable ribbon and USB cable. Do these models exists somewhere ? Which company can provide them ? Which company can make the modelization of such cable ? thanks for your answer Fabrice BOISSIERES IO Library Developer Central R&D Design Automation and Integrated Systems STMICROELECTRONICS 850,rue Jean Monnet F-38926 Crolles, Cedex Tel: +33 4 76 92 64 10 Fax: +33 4 76 92 69 74 email: fabrice.boissieres@st.com From owner-ibis Fri Aug 25 09:18:59 2000 Received: from iris-new.san-jose.tt.slb.com (iris.san-jose.tt.slb.com [163.188.105.47]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7PGIuT13064 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sagarwala-nt (sjdhcp-114-191 [163.188.114.191]) by iris-new.san-jose.tt.slb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18841; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005c01c00eaf$6ad00fe0$bf72bca3@sagarwala-nt.san-jose.tt.slb.com> From: "Muhammad S. Sagarwala" To: "Fabrice BOISSIERES" , , Cc: "BOISSIERES, Fabrice" Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : cable model for UDMA and USB Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Hello Fabrice, First you can try and come up with spice models yourself using 2d/3d modellers available in the market and beleive me it is not that difficult. I know Ansoft and Applied Simulation Technologies make such software. There may be quite a few others. If you are planning to outsource, Gigatest Labs in San Jose, CA, is pretty capable. You can check www.gigatest.com . for details. Hope this helps Muhammad -----Original Message----- From: Fabrice BOISSIERES To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com ; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: BOISSIERES, Fabrice Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:12 AM Subject: [SI-LIST] : cable model for UDMA and USB >Hello, > > >We need to have spice cable model of UDMA cable ribbon and USB cable. > >Do these models exists somewhere ? > > >Which company can provide them ? > > >Which company can make the modelization of such cable ? > > > >thanks for your answer > >Fabrice BOISSIERES >IO Library Developer >Central R&D >Design Automation and Integrated Systems >STMICROELECTRONICS >850,rue Jean Monnet >F-38926 Crolles, Cedex >Tel: +33 4 76 92 64 10 >Fax: +33 4 76 92 69 74 >email: fabrice.boissieres@st.com > >**** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to >majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE >si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP. >si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu >**** > > From owner-ibis Mon Aug 28 10:21:59 2000 Received: from mercury.lss.emc.com (mercury.eng.emc.com [168.159.40.77]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7SHLvT22835 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.eng.emc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: <221EA3AEAB55D411A2DA00D0B774E6F7138B9C@marino.lss.emc.com> From: "jernberg, terry" To: "'IBIS-USERS@EDA.ORG'" Subject: long "tails" to rising/falling waveform Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:20:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, We are currently facing a problem with rising and falling waveforms. In some models, there are long "tails" to rising/falling waveform, which when simulated in ICX cause massive amplitude fluctuations. In order to alleviate this problem, we took out the rising/falling ramp tables and relied entirely on dv/dt information. The results were better but we suspect contain more optimism than the real world. This brought us to the issue of modifying the ramp tables such that the tails disappear. But by doing that, we may skew the ramp relative to clamps and pull-up/down data. Which we suspect would cause even bigger problems. To all who may have dealt with this problem, what is the best way to modify the ramp tables? Secondly, how desirable is it to just rely on the dv/dt information. Dv/dt gives us just two points along the ramp. Hence, could be intuitively less desirable than rising/falling waveforms. We noticed that the models provided by Mentor Graphics have just the dv/dt info and not ramp tables. Would't this give us more optimism than may exist in real life? Thanks, From owner-ibis Tue Aug 29 07:15:01 2000 Received: from dfw-gate2.raytheon.com (dfw-gate2.raytheon.com [199.46.199.231]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7TEExT26704 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ds02c00.directory.ray.com (ds02c00.rsc.raytheon.com [147.25.138.118]) by dfw-gate2.raytheon.com (8.11.0.Beta3/8.11.0.Beta3) with ESMTP id e7TEC2u25807 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:12:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from notesgw.gar.esys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ds02c00.directory.ray.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16201 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:11:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from raytheon.com ([162.36.241.59]) by notesgw.gar.esys.com (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.3) with ESMTP id 2000082909083003:1105 ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:08:30 -0500 Message-ID: <39ABC41F.9ABEC0DE@raytheon.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:09:35 -0500 From: "Stacy Gore (972-205-4208)" Organization: Raytheon Systems Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS Questions Subject: Modeling Schottky Diodes X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on RCSMTA01/SRV/Raytheon/US(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 08/29/2000 09:08:30 AM, Serialize by Router on RCSMTA01/SRV/Raytheon/US(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 08/29/2000 09:08:31 AM, Serialize complete at 08/29/2000 09:08:31 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anybody have a model or a suggestion on how to add Schottky Diodes to a model? I am modeling a backplane using ICX Electrical Editor and wanted to add Schottky Diodes terminators Looking at California Micro Devices PAC DN005. -- Stacy L. Gore Staff Engineer Raytheon C3I From owner-ibis Tue Aug 29 23:34:04 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7U6Y2T29716 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exgw.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id XAA22488; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svr-ies-exc-01.ies.mentorg.com by exgw.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.33R) id XAA05587; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by svr-ies-exc-01.ies.mentorg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:31:16 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Manor, Ben" To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: SMD Resistor Package parasitics Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:31:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0124B.E27A58D0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0124B.E27A58D0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, Where can I find smd Resistor Package parasitics to include in their Ibis models? Thanks, Ben Manor MGI ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0124B.E27A58D0 Content-Type: text/html SMD Resistor Package parasitics

Hi,

Where can I find smd Resistor Package parasitics to include
in their Ibis models?

     Thanks,


         Ben Manor
         MGI

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0124B.E27A58D0-- From owner-ibis Thu Aug 31 11:29:39 2000 Received: from osiris.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [63.194.140.25]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e7VITbT08159 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by osiris.vlsi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA12531 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:26:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: osiris.vlsi.com: smtp set sender to using -f Received: from (witsend.tempe.sc.philips.com [134.27.133.12]) by osiris via smap (V2.0) id xma012524; Thu, 31 Aug 00 11:26:49 -0700 Sender: dsession@osiris.vlsi.com Message-ID: <39AEA369.7B25C0F6@philips.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:26:49 -0700 From: "D.C. Sessions" Reply-To: ibis@lumbercartel.com Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Drive-on-demand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Need to double-check this. It seems that there are standard logic components which, on output, sense the output voltage and adjust drive current in response. No, I don't mean bus hold. These parts drive LOW hard when the output voltage is above a certain threshold and cut the drive when the output is below that threshold. Rising-edge drive is similar. Yes, I know that this is of dubious stability. Nobody asked me if they should do it this way, but the manufacturers want to make this a JEDEC standard and I'm trying to help them put together an IBIS model. Which, as far as I can tell, is possible using Submodel_type Bus_hold and having negative currents in the [Pulldown] and [Pullup] tables. 1) Have I missed a better way to do this? 2) Will this be legal? 3) Will this break EDA tools? -- D. C. Sessions ibis@lumbercartel.com From owner-ibis Thu Aug 31 18:26:26 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e811QOT09625 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id SAA05987; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id SAA06225; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <39AF051B.81373FAC@mentor.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:23:39 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@lumbercartel.com CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: Drive-on-demand References: <39AEA369.7B25C0F6@philips.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D.C.: Based on your description, I do not believe Bus_hold will work directly. I do not believe simulators will work with "negative" currents in the tables - meaning doing the opposite of what is expected or creating a negative impedance buffer that acts opposite of a conventional buffer. Opposite polarity I-V tables will probably be flagged as an error by the ibischk3 parser. Therefore it would not be legal. I cannot think of any clever alternative with IBIS Version 3.2. However, I believe the new macro language under discussion by the IBIS Futures Working Group will be able to handle this situation (this would be a good test case). Bob Ross Mentor Graphics "D.C. Sessions" wrote: > > Need to double-check this. It seems that there are standard > logic components which, on output, sense the output voltage > and adjust drive current in response. > > No, I don't mean bus hold. These parts drive LOW hard when > the output voltage is above a certain threshold and cut the > drive when the output is below that threshold. Rising-edge > drive is similar. > > Yes, I know that this is of dubious stability. Nobody asked > me if they should do it this way, but the manufacturers want > to make this a JEDEC standard and I'm trying to help them > put together an IBIS model. Which, as far as I can tell, is > possible using > > Submodel_type Bus_hold > > and having negative currents in the [Pulldown] and [Pullup] > tables. > > 1) Have I missed a better way to do this? > 2) Will this be legal? > 3) Will this break EDA tools? > > -- > D. C. Sessions > ibis@lumbercartel.com