From owner-ibis Mon Dec 2 16:49:07 1996 Received: from c11167-343dan.ece.ncsu.edu (c11167-343dan.ece.ncsu.edu [152.1.59.242]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA23970; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: awglaser@eos.ncsu.edu Received: by c11167-343dan.ece.ncsu.edu (8.6.9/EC06jan95) id TAA02658; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:37:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199612030037.TAA02658@c11167-343dan.ece.ncsu.edu> Subject: New version of s2ibis2 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, ibis@vhdl.org Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:37:57 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24/POP] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IBISGurus: The v1.0 release of s2ibis2 is now available. This version fixes many bugs, and implements several new features. There are also new examples of how to use the various commands. The new version of s2ibis2 can be obtained via ftp at ftp://ftp.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/s2ibis/s2ibis2_v1.0 as well as ftp://ftp.eos.ncsu.edu/pub/vlsi/techreports/s2ibis2.tar.Z It can also be obtained using a Web browser at http://www2.ncsu.edu/eos/project/erl_html/erl_software.html#s2ibis2 (Click on "S2ibis2" to download.) Questions and comments are welcome; send them to awglaser@eos.ncsu.edu. Regards, -- Alan Glaser "It's not a competition, ECE Dept. it's just a mint..." - K North Carolina State University From owner-ibis Tue Dec 3 08:31:51 1996 Received: from stout.cisco.com (stout.cisco.com [171.69.1.157]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17324 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (akulkarn@localhost) by stout.cisco.com (8.6.12/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) id IAA21990 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:20:06 -0800 From: Ajit Kulkarni Message-Id: <199612031620.IAA21990@stout.cisco.com> Subject: Re: Use of s2ibis2 utility (fwd) To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:20:06 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, can you direct me to a right person who may be able to help us in the process of generating IBIS models form s2ibis2 utility? Is there any newsgroup to discuss IBIS related issues? thanks, Ajit Kulkarni ------------- Forwarded message: > From mbs@eos.ncsu.edu Tue Dec 3 05:03:28 1996 > From: "Michael B Steer" > Message-Id: <9612030803.ZM4790@eos.ncsu.edu> > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:03:22 -0500 > In-Reply-To: Ajit Kulkarni > "Use of s2ibis2 utility" (Dec 2, 5:20pm) > References: <2.2.32.19961203012057.006edff0@stout.cisco.com> > X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) > To: Ajit Kulkarni , slipa@eos.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Use of s2ibis2 utility > Cc: mbs@ncsu.edu, paulf@ncsu.edu > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Ajit, > > It has been agreed by the IBIS community that we (NCSU) do not provide support > for s2ibis. All questions should be addressed to ibis-users@vhdl.org This is > the condition by which s2ibis is made available. I hope that you understand > that this work is done by us on our own time. The exception to this is that > Steve Lipa and Alan Glaser are > sometimes available to consult at a regular consulting fee. > > Michael Steer > On Dec 2, 5:20pm, Ajit Kulkarni wrote:ibis-users@vhdl.org > > Subject: Use of s2ibis2 utility > > Hi, > > I was planning to use the s2ibis2 utility to generate IBIS model for an > > ASIC based on the sample files tryme.xxx that came with the tar file. > > However the pin definition part is not very clear to me and when I tried > > a simple run to generate IBIS model from SPICE model for output driver I got > > following messages before the run was abouted:- > > s2ibis2:Strarting hspice job with input putthree.spi > > s2ibis2:Data begin marker transfer not found in output file putthree.out > > These messages were repeated for punthree and puxthree. > > I would appreciate if you can point me to some more detailed information > > about the command file or sample files and make suggestions based on the > > status messages. > > > > thanks, > > > > Ajit Kulkarni > > ------------- > > Cisco Systems > > > >-- End of excerpt from Ajit Kulkarni > > > > -- > > ================================================= > Dr. Michael Steer, Professor > Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering > Daniels Hall, Room 335 > North Carolina State University > Raleigh, NC 27695-7911 > phone 919-515-5191 fax: 919-515-5523 > email mbs@ncsu.edu > url: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/faculty/mbs.html > ================================================= > From owner-ibis Wed Dec 4 13:40:40 1996 Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17598; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08918; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:45 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00584; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Message-Id: <9612042130.AA00584@ricky.sun_net> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Help: Programable outputs Ibis folks, I guess this question is mainly aimed at the simulation vendor folks, but feedback is welcome from everyone: (Our products are programmable logic devices, for those who are not familiar with Actel) For a component that has a programable behavior for the I/O pins, what might be the preferred way of presenting the data for the different possible configurations? Specifically, let's say that a pin can be programmed to be either: 1) Tristateable I/O with a fast slew rate 2) " " " " slow slew rate 3) Open Drain output (data input to the output buffer is programmed to be tied to the enable of the buffer) Would it be better to actually make a main IBIS file that contains all of the I/Os in condition (1), with 2 extra IBIS files that contain only one pin in them each for conditions (2) and (3)? Or, perhaps only make one IBIS file with all of the pins configured in condition (1) and commented out sections for conditions (2) and (3). Or, even another possibility of dividing the I/Os into 3 equal sections, one for each configuration? All comments/suggestions welcome, and please forgive me if this has been discussed already. Thanks, -Scott Schlachter scotts@actel.com Actel Corporation Sunnyvale, CA. From owner-ibis Wed Dec 4 16:39:23 1996 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18963; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id QAA09939; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:28:26 -0800 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma009697; Wed Dec 4 16:28:00 1996 Received: from lightning-gw.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA05990 for ibis@vhdl.org; Wed, 4 Dec 96 16:27:34 -0800 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22056; Wed, 4 Dec 96 16:29:10 PST Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 16:29:10 PST From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9612050029.AA22056@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org, scotts@actel.com Subject: Re: Help: Programable outputs Scott, I have a device with a programmble slew rate spec. Slew rate is controlled by an external pin tied to a variable resistor. There are may ways to do this until we see Arpad's BIRD30.2(Programmable Buffer)in IBIS3.0. So,we have to figure work arounds til then. I added ALL the possible buffer combinations in ONE IBIS model file. THen thru the pin list, I comment out the model names I do not need to run. This manual commenting and uncommenting of model names need to be explained up on top under [Notes] for a customer to understand what to do. Best Regards, Syed. National Semiconductor Corp. > > For a component that has a programable behavior for the I/O pins, what > might be the preferred way of presenting the data for the different > possible configurations? Specifically, let's say that a pin can be > programmed to be either: > 1) Tristateable I/O with a fast slew rate > 2) " " " " slow slew rate > 3) Open Drain output (data input to the output buffer is > programmed to be tied to the enable of the buffer) > > Would it be better to actually make a main IBIS file that contains all > of the I/Os in condition (1), with 2 extra IBIS files that contain only > one pin in them each for conditions (2) and (3)? Or, perhaps only make > one IBIS file with all of the pins configured in condition (1) and > commented out sections for conditions (2) and (3). Or, even another > possibility of dividing the I/Os into 3 equal sections, one for each > configuration? All comments/suggestions welcome, and please forgive me > if this has been discussed already. Thanks, From owner-ibis Wed Dec 4 18:12:26 1996 Received: from marceau.fm.intel.com (marceau.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.8]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19674; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by marceau.fm.intel.com (8.7.6/10.0i); Thu, 5 Dec 1996 02:01:17 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA02957; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Wed, 04 Dec 96 17:58:56 PST Date: Wed, 04 Dec 96 14:28:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Help: Programable outputs Text item: Scott, BIRD30.2 addresses the problem you have. Hopefully it will be implemented in IBIS3.0 soon. Untill then, in our models we use comments. Spceifically, I put everything that is legal in BIRD30.2 into the IBIS file with comment characters in front of each line. This and an explanation gives enough information to the user to know how to edit the IBIS file for the various conditions. When IBIS3.0 arrives, all they need to do is to rmove the comment characters. Arpad =============================================================================== Ibis folks, I guess this question is mainly aimed at the simulation vendor folks, but feedback is welcome from everyone: (Our products are programmable logic devices, for those who are not familiar with Actel) For a component that has a programable behavior for the I/O pins, what might be the preferred way of presenting the data for the different possible configurations? Specifically, let's say that a pin can be programmed to be either: 1) Tristateable I/O with a fast slew rate 2) " " " " slow slew rate 3) Open Drain output (data input to the output buffer is programmed to be tied to the enable of the buffer) Would it be better to actually make a main IBIS file that contains all of the I/Os in condition (1), with 2 extra IBIS files that contain only one pin in them each for conditions (2) and (3)? Or, perhaps only make one IBIS file with all of the pins configured in condition (1) and commented out sections for conditions (2) and (3). Or, even another possibility of dividing the I/Os into 3 equal sections, one for each configuration? All comments/suggestions welcome, and please forgive me if this has been discussed already. Thanks, -Scott Schlachter scotts@actel.com Actel Corporation Sunnyvale, CA. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Help: Programable outputs To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Message-Id: <9612042130.AA00584@ricky.sun_net> From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00584; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08918; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:45 PST Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8 .7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17598; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19804; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10202; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:37:03 -0800 (P ST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Thu Dec 5 12:24:15 1996 Received: from mail2.pilot.net (mail2.pilot.net [198.232.147.11]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13734 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from idt.com (unknown-5-20.idt.com [157.165.5.20]) by mail2.pilot.net with SMTP id MAA00263 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Eng.idt.com (root@maxwell.Eng.idt.com [157.165.21.24]) by idt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA22661 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:05 -0800 Received: from pulsar.Eng.idt.com (pulsar.Eng.idt.com [157.165.31.15]) by Eng.idt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA03903 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 From: Arthur Wong Received: (arthur@localhost) by pulsar.Eng.idt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA03100 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199612052013.MAA03100@pulsar.Eng.idt.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Pin Name To IBIS users, I have a 2.1 IBIS model in which I specified under [Pin] the pin name "gnd". When I ran the golden parser (ibis_chk, v2.1.11), I got this error message: ERROR (line 34) - Illegal use of Reserved Word 'gnd'. The spec only requires pin names be 5 char max. Am I missing something? Here's the complete line: [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin gnd gnd GND Regards, Arthur Wong IDT arthur@idt.com From owner-ibis Thu Dec 5 12:41:07 1996 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13851 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id MAA26690; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:30:10 -0800 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma026455; Thu Dec 5 12:29:53 1996 Received: from lightning-gw.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA26240 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Thu, 5 Dec 96 12:29:25 -0800 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16005; Thu, 5 Dec 96 12:31:01 PST Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 12:31:01 PST From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9612052031.AA16005@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, Arthur.Wong@idt.com Subject: Re: Pin Name Arthur, POWER,GND,gnd,power are reserved keywords and cannot be used. If you name it 'gnd1' it's ok but not 'gnd'. Regards, Syed. National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org Thu Dec 5 12:22:00 1996 > From: Arthur Wong > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 > To: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Pin Name > Content-Length: 481 > > > To IBIS users, > > I have a 2.1 IBIS model in which I specified under [Pin] > the pin name "gnd". When I ran the golden parser > (ibis_chk, v2.1.11), I got this error message: > > ERROR (line 34) - Illegal use of Reserved Word 'gnd'. > > > The spec only requires pin names be 5 char max. Am I > missing something? Here's the complete line: > > [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin > gnd gnd GND > > Regards, > Arthur Wong > IDT > arthur@idt.com > From owner-ibis Thu Dec 5 13:14:57 1996 Received: from icx.com (root@fw.icx.com [205.238.6.33]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14070 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by icx.com (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.2) id ; Thu, 5 Dec 96 13:03 PST Received: by icx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.14) id ; Thu, 5 Dec 96 13:03 PST Received: by icx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.14) id ; Thu, 5 Dec 96 13:05 PST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 13:05 PST From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: arthur.wong@idt.com, huq@rockie.nsc.com, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Forwarded: Re: Pin Name (forwarded with change since I mistyped the reflector address) Arthur, Syed: I just checked this and it looks like you have dicovered an ibis_chk and ibischk2 bug that has been in existance from day one. It seems that if a pin "number" takes on the name of any of the reserved words (gnd, power, nc na) it reports an error. This is not correct. Thank you Arthur for finding this. Syed's comments is correct for a workaround. However, I do not believe it was the intention that these could not be used for pin numbers or signal_name entries. (They work for signal_name). Bob Ross Inteconnectix > From: Arthur Wong > Received: (arthur@localhost) by pulsar.Eng.idt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA03100 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:13:04 -0800 > Message-Id: <199612052013.MAA03100@pulsar.Eng.idt.com> > To: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Pin Name > Status: R > To IBIS users, > I have a 2.1 IBIS model in which I specified under [Pin] > the pin name "gnd". When I ran the golden parser > (ibis_chk, v2.1.11), I got this error message: > ERROR (line 34) - Illegal use of Reserved Word 'gnd'. > The spec only requires pin names be 5 char max. Am I > missing something? Here's the complete line: > [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin > gnd gnd GND > Regards, > Arthur Wong > IDT > arthur@idt.com From owner-ibis Thu Dec 5 17:45:16 1996 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp6.netcom.com [163.179.3.6]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16316; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from symdes.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id RAA22230; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:01:55 -0800 Received: from taress.symmetry by symmetry.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15758; Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST From: zheng@symmetry.com (Zheng SHI) Message-Id: <9612060059.AA15758@ symmetry.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Questions of Polarity and Enable Hi, Ibis folks: Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find the answer? Thanks a lot, -Zheng Shi zheng@symmetry.com Los Altos, CA. From owner-ibis Fri Dec 6 15:20:28 1996 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12718; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA21486; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:09:31 -0800 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma021365; Fri Dec 6 15:09:21 1996 Received: from lightning-gw.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA26257 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:08:53 -0800 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18011; Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:10:30 PST Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:10:30 PST From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9612062310.AA18011@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org, sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Questions of Polarity and Enable Hi, If you are creating an IBIS model based on s2ibis utility, Polarity and Enable are key in making the conversion work. For Model_type Input, Polarity=1 sets the input for inverting while Polarity=0 for non-inverting. For Model_type I/O or 3-state, both Polarity and Enable fields are expected. Enable specifies the pin number that enables the associated output. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Zheng Shi of Symmetry wrote: > > >Hi, Ibis folks: > > > >Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of > >keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff > >pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide > >the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? > > > >I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, > >can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find > >the answer? > > > >Thanks a lot, > > > >-Zheng Shi > > zheng@symmetry.com > > Los Altos, CA. > > I belive the original intent was to support SSI logic components > (74OO series TTL and the like) by allowing the user to include > information on the outputs' logic operation. For example, the model provider > could specify if the the path from input to output was inverting or > non-inverting or if the enable on a tri-state output pin was high or > low. However, for a lot of components (microprocessors, PALS/FPGAS, RAMS, > etc.) these parameters don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway). Unless > you were modeling an SSI component where this made since, I would > just default them to positive polarity and Active_high. > > Ibis old-timmers, any other comments? > > Best Regards, > Stephen Peters > Intel Corp. > > From owner-ibis Fri Dec 6 14:42:44 1996 Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12385; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27682; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id OAA11827; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:29:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612062229.OAA11827@ichips.intel.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Questions of Polarity and Enable Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 14:31:33 -0800 From: Stephen Peters On Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Zheng Shi of Symmetry wrote: >Hi, Ibis folks: > >Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of >keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff >pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide >the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? > >I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, >can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find >the answer? > >Thanks a lot, > >-Zheng Shi > zheng@symmetry.com > Los Altos, CA. I belive the original intent was to support SSI logic components (74OO series TTL and the like) by allowing the user to include information on the outputs' logic operation. For example, the model provider could specify if the the path from input to output was inverting or non-inverting or if the enable on a tri-state output pin was high or low. However, for a lot of components (microprocessors, PALS/FPGAS, RAMS, etc.) these parameters don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway). Unless you were modeling an SSI component where this made since, I would just default them to positive polarity and Active_high. Ibis old-timmers, any other comments? Best Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. From owner-ibis Fri Dec 6 16:41:52 1996 Received: from marceau.fm.intel.com (marceau.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.8]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13723; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by marceau.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:30:41 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA28099; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Fri, 06 Dec 96 16:28:18 PST Date: Fri, 06 Dec 96 15:44:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Questions of Polarity and Enable Text item: Stephen, and Zheng, If the use of the Polarity (and other) sub-parameter doesn't make sense, don't use it. It is not a required sub-parameter. Arpad =============================================================================== On Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Zheng Shi of Symmetry wrote: >Hi, Ibis folks: > >Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of >keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff >pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide >the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? > >I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, >can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find >the answer? > >Thanks a lot, > >-Zheng Shi > zheng@symmetry.com > Los Altos, CA. I belive the original intent was to support SSI logic components (74OO series TTL and the like) by allowing the user to include information on the outputs' logic operation. For example, the model provider could specify if the the path from input to output was inverting or non-inverting or if the enable on a tri-state output pin was high or low. However, for a lot of components (microprocessors, PALS/FPGAS, RAMS, etc.) these parameters don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway). Unless you were modeling an SSI component where this made since, I would just default them to positive polarity and Active_high. Ibis old-timmers, any other comments? Best Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. From: Stephen Peters Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 14:31:33 -0800 Subject: Questions of Polarity and Enable To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Message-Id: <199612062229.OAA11827@ichips.intel.com> Received: from ichips.intel.com by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id OAA11827; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.in tel.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27682; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:31:30 -0800 (PS T) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by vhdl.vhdl. org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12385; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28257; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17422; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:34:14 -0800 (P ST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Fri Dec 6 16:42:19 1996 Received: from marceau.fm.intel.com (marceau.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.8]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13728; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by marceau.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:31:09 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA28139; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Fri, 06 Dec 96 16:28:45 PST Date: Fri, 06 Dec 96 15:47:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re[2]: Questions of Polarity and Enable Text item: Syed, Again, these sub-parameters are not required in IBIS. They may be used in the s2ibis conversion tool, but IBIS doesn't require them, so people don't have to use them if it doesn't make sense for them. Arpad ============================================================================== Hi, If you are creating an IBIS model based on s2ibis utility, Polarity and Enable are key in making the conversion work. For Model_type Input, Polarity=1 sets the input for inverting while Polarity=0 for non-inverting. For Model_type I/O or 3-state, both Polarity and Enable fields are expected. Enable specifies the pin number that enables the associated output. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Zheng Shi of Symmetry wrote: > > >Hi, Ibis folks: > > > >Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of > >keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff > >pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide > >the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? > > > >I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, > >can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find > >the answer? > > > >Thanks a lot, > > > >-Zheng Shi > > zheng@symmetry.com > > Los Altos, CA. > > I belive the original intent was to support SSI logic components > (74OO series TTL and the like) by allowing the user to include > information on the outputs' logic operation. For example, the model provider > could specify if the the path from input to output was inverting or > non-inverting or if the enable on a tri-state output pin was high or > low. However, for a lot of components (microprocessors, PALS/FPGAS, RAMS, > etc.) these parameters don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway). Unless > you were modeling an SSI component where this made since, I would > just default them to positive polarity and Active_high. > > Ibis old-timmers, any other comments? > > Best Regards, > Stephen Peters > Intel Corp. > > Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: Questions of Polarity and Enable To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org, sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Message-Id: <9612062310.AA18011@rockie.nsc.com> From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:10:30 PST Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18011; Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:10:30 PST Received: from lightning-gw.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA26257 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:08:53 -0800 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma021365; Fri Dec 6 15:09:21 1996 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA2148 6; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:09:31 -0800 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by vhdl. vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12718; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:20:27 -0800 (PS T) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05424; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24443; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:12:27 -0800 (P ST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Sat Dec 7 05:55:08 1996 Received: from pimaia4w.prodigy.com (pimaia4w.prodigy.com [198.83.18.139]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA05263; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mime3.prodigy.com (mime3.prodigy.com [192.168.253.27]) by pimaia4w.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA33562; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:30:52 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by mime3.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id IAA11880; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199612071324.IAA11880@mime3.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae02dm02sc06 From: EGJJ77A@prodigy.com (MR RONALD J CHRISTOPHER) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:50, -0500 To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org cc: cottrell@cfi.org, john_beatty@vnet.ibm.com Date: 07 Dec 96 To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Help: Programmable Outputs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: Ron Christopher * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] -- It seems like the proposed BIRD will have the user manually edit the IBIS model for each different condition. The IBIS model is in the category of rules data when processing at the higher level package. Would you require each user to have their own copy of the IBIS model in an MCM or board design shop? Can this proposal support a user who needs the IBIS model set one way for one net and a different way for a different net in the same higher level package being processed? Would a standardized filter identifier associated with the pin in the design data base improve the proposal? The filter identifier would identify to the programs which subset of the IBIS model to use for each instance of a pin. The standardized identifier can then be used by other functions such as system level delay or tristate rules checking etc. One could perhaps write a checker that checked that the standardized identifier was correct for the conditions which might require tracing a couple of levels of logic through the network. Ron Christopher ================== Text item: Scott, BIRD30.2 addresses the problem you have. Hopefully it will be implemented in IBIS3.0 soon. Untill then, in our models we use comments. Spceifically, I put everything that is legal in BIRD30.2 into the IBIS file with comment characters in front of each line. This and an explanation gives enough information to the user to know how to edit the IBIS file for the various conditions. When IBIS3.0 arrives, all they need to do is to rmove the comment characters. Arpad ======================================================================== ======= Ibis folks, I guess this question is mainly aimed at the simulation vendor folks, but feedback is welcome from everyone: (Our products are programmable logic devices, for those who are not familiar with Actel) For a component that has a programable behavior for the I/O pins, what might be the preferred way of presenting the data for the different possible configurations? Specifically, let's say that a pin can be programmed to be either: 1) Tristateable I/O with a fast slew rate 2) " " " " slow slew rate 3) Open Drain output (data input to the output buffer is programmed to be tied to the enable of the buffer) Would it be better to actually make a main IBIS file that contains all of the I/Os in condition (1), with 2 extra IBIS files that contain only one pin in them each for conditions (2) and (3)? Or, perhaps only make one IBIS file with all of the pins configured in condition (1) and commented out sections for conditions (2) and (3). Or, even another possibility of dividing the I/Os into 3 equal sections, one for each configuration? All comments/suggestions welcome, and please forgive me if this has been discussed already. Thanks, -Scott Schlachter scotts@actel.com Actel Corporation Sunnyvale, CA. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Help: Programable outputs To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Message-Id: <9612042130.AA00584@ricky.sun_net> From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00584; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08918; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:45 PST Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl. vhdl.org (8 .7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17598; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19804; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel. com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10202; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:37:03 -0800 (P ST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Mon Dec 9 07:47:35 1996 Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28974; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23063; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:37:41 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01865; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:37:40 PST Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:37:40 PST From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Message-Id: <9612091537.AA01865@ricky.sun_net> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: Questions of Polarity and Enable Please disregard my last email. I just realized that these parameters are not actually required. My appologies, -Scott > Syed, > > Again, these sub-parameters are not required in IBIS. They may be used in the > s2ibis conversion tool, but IBIS doesn't require them, so people don't have to > use them if it doesn't make sense for them. > > Arpad > ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Mon Dec 9 07:59:22 1996 Received: from marceau.fm.intel.com (marceau.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.8]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29053; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by marceau.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:48:09 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id HAA08680; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Mon, 09 Dec 96 07:45:42 PST Date: Mon, 09 Dec 96 07:37:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re[2]: Questions of Polarity and Enable Text item: Scott, It seems to me that my respnse didn't make it through the reflector. The sub-parameters Enable and Polarity are NOT required in an IBIS model according to the spec. So I don't understand what all the fuss is about this. If you don't need it, don't use it... Arpad ============================================================================== Good morning IBIS world, The nessessity of having Enable and Polarity specified for the s2ibis utilities is clear to me. However, I too was wondering why they are required in the specs. It almost seems like unnesessary data to require to be listed for all of the types of pins. It SHOULD be required to specify the enable pin, IF the enable for an I/O is an external pin itself; such with, it should also have its (the enable pin's) polarity specified. But, if the enable is only available internally, why specify it? And, if it is not specifically an external enable pin, why does the pin's polarity matter to the simulation tools? Thanks, -Scott Schlachter Actel Corporation scotts@actel.com Sunnyvale, CA Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: Questions of Polarity and Enable To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Message-Id: <9612091520.AA01859@ricky.sun_net> From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:40 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01859; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:40 PST Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22981; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:41 PST Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8 .7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28855; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by mailbag.jf.intel.c om (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA20447; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbag.jf.intel.com (root@mailbag.jf.intel.com [134.134.248.4]) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA11128; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:2 6:48 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Mon Dec 9 07:30:35 1996 Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28855; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22981; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:41 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01859; Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:40 PST Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 07:20:40 PST From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Message-Id: <9612091520.AA01859@ricky.sun_net> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Questions of Polarity and Enable Good morning IBIS world, The nessessity of having Enable and Polarity specified for the s2ibis utilities is clear to me. However, I too was wondering why they are required in the specs. It almost seems like unnesessary data to require to be listed for all of the types of pins. It SHOULD be required to specify the enable pin, IF the enable for an I/O is an external pin itself; such with, it should also have its (the enable pin's) polarity specified. But, if the enable is only available internally, why specify it? And, if it is not specifically an external enable pin, why does the pin's polarity matter to the simulation tools? Thanks, -Scott Schlachter Actel Corporation scotts@actel.com Sunnyvale, CA > Hi, > > If you are creating an IBIS model based on s2ibis utility, Polarity > and Enable are key in making the conversion work. > > For Model_type Input, Polarity=1 sets the input for inverting while > Polarity=0 for non-inverting. > > For Model_type I/O or 3-state, both Polarity and Enable fields are > expected. Enable specifies the pin number that enables the associated > output. > > Regards, > Syed > National Semiconductor Corp. > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:59:01 PST Zheng Shi of Symmetry wrote: > > > > >Hi, Ibis folks: > > > > > >Can anyone tell me what the sub-param Polarity and Enable of > > >keyword [Model] really means? Is Polarity used only on diff > > >pins? Is Enable used only on tri-state pins? How can I decide > > >the Polarity and Enable of an input or output pin? > > > > > >I can't find such detail information from IBIS2.1 Specification, > > >can anyone give me some advices, or tell me where i can find > > >the answer? > > > > > >Thanks a lot, > > > > > >-Zheng Shi > > > zheng@symmetry.com > > > Los Altos, CA. > > > > I belive the original intent was to support SSI logic components > > (74OO series TTL and the like) by allowing the user to include > > information on the outputs' logic operation. For example, the model provider > > could specify if the the path from input to output was inverting or > > non-inverting or if the enable on a tri-state output pin was high or > > low. However, for a lot of components (microprocessors, PALS/FPGAS, RAMS, > > etc.) these parameters don't seem to make much sense (to me, anyway). Unless > > you were modeling an SSI component where this made since, I would > > just default them to positive polarity and Active_high. > > > > Ibis old-timmers, any other comments? > > > > Best Regards, > > Stephen Peters > > Intel Corp. > > > > > From owner-ibis Tue Dec 10 10:36:39 1996 Received: from marceau.fm.intel.com (marceau.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.8]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28597; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by marceau.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:25:19 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id KAA16460; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Tue, 10 Dec 96 10:22:51 PST Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 08:12:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org cc: cottrell@cfi.org, john_beatty@vnet.ibm.com Subject: Re[2]: Help: Programmable Outputs Text item: Ron, First, the proposed bird (30.2) does not require any manual edits by the user. The whole point was to provide a mechanizm that the simulation software would be able to use in a user friendly interface or dialog box, etc. Through this the user would not have to edit the IBIS model, the user will have to make selections in the simulation software. If no selections are made, the default will be in effect, but the software will still be able to simulate. Second, you are using some kind of a software jargon in your suggestion that I don't understand ("standardized filter identifier"). Since I don't understand, I cant comment on it. Would you care to elaborate a little more? Arpad =============================================================================== -- [ From: Ron Christopher * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] -- It seems like the proposed BIRD will have the user manually edit the IBIS model for each different condition. The IBIS model is in the category of rules data when processing at the higher level package. Would you require each user to have their own copy of the IBIS model in an MCM or board design shop? Can this proposal support a user who needs the IBIS model set one way for one net and a different way for a different net in the same higher level package being processed? Would a standardized filter identifier associated with the pin in the design data base improve the proposal? The filter identifier would identify to the programs which subset of the IBIS model to use for each instance of a pin. The standardized identifier can then be used by other functions such as system level delay or tristate rules checking etc. One could perhaps write a checker that checked that the standardized identifier was correct for the conditions which might require tracing a couple of levels of logic through the network. Ron Christopher ================== Text item: Scott, BIRD30.2 addresses the problem you have. Hopefully it will be implemented in IBIS3.0 soon. Untill then, in our models we use comments. Spceifically, I put everything that is legal in BIRD30.2 into the IBIS file with comment characters in front of each line. This and an explanation gives enough information to the user to know how to edit the IBIS file for the various conditions. When IBIS3.0 arrives, all they need to do is to rmove the comment characters. Arpad ======================================================================== ======= Ibis folks, I guess this question is mainly aimed at the simulation vendor folks, but feedback is welcome from everyone: (Our products are programmable logic devices, for those who are not familiar with Actel) For a component that has a programable behavior for the I/O pins, what might be the preferred way of presenting the data for the different possible configurations? Specifically, let's say that a pin can be programmed to be either: 1) Tristateable I/O with a fast slew rate 2) " " " " slow slew rate 3) Open Drain output (data input to the output buffer is programmed to be tied to the enable of the buffer) Would it be better to actually make a main IBIS file that contains all of the I/Os in condition (1), with 2 extra IBIS files that contain only one pin in them each for conditions (2) and (3)? Or, perhaps only make one IBIS file with all of the pins configured in condition (1) and commented out sections for conditions (2) and (3). Or, even another possibility of dividing the I/Os into 3 equal sections, one for each configuration? All comments/suggestions welcome, and please forgive me if this has been discussed already. Thanks, -Scott Schlachter scotts@actel.com Actel Corporation Sunnyvale, CA. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Help: Programable outputs To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Message-Id: <9612042130.AA00584@ricky.sun_net> From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00584; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:44 PST Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08918; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:30:45 PST Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by vhdl. vhdl.org (8 .7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17598; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19804; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel. com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10202; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:37:03 -0800 (P ST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Help: Programmable Outputs To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: 07 Dec 96 cc: cottrell@cfi.org, john_beatty@vnet.ibm.com To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:50, -0500 From: EGJJ77A@prodigy.com (MR RONALD J CHRISTOPHER) X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae02dm02sc06 Message-Id: <199612071324.IAA11880@mime3.prodigy.com> Received: (from root@localhost) by mime3.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id IAA11880; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:51 -0500 Received: from mime3.prodigy.com (mime3.prodigy.com [192.168.253.27]) by pimaia4 w.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA33562; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:30:52 -0 500 Received: from pimaia4w.prodigy.com (pimaia4w.prodigy.com [198.83.18.139]) by vh dl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA05263; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by mailbag.jf.intel.c om (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA03566; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbag.jf.intel.com (root@mailbag.jf.intel.com [134.134.248.4]) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA01760; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:5 0:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: owner-ibis@vhdl.vhdl.org From owner-ibis Wed Dec 11 18:27:56 1996 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp7.netcom.com [163.179.3.7]) by vhdl.vhdl.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00712; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from symdes.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id SAA24158; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:01:44 -0800 Received: from taress.symmetry by symmetry.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25809; Wed, 11 Dec 96 17:38:53 PST Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 17:38:53 PST From: zheng@symmetry.com (Zheng SHI) Message-Id: <9612120138.AA25809@ symmetry.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Package Model? Hi, Ibis folks: Thank you all for reading and answering my last question about Polarity and Enable sub-param. This time I met another problem, an I/O pin has a package model as below: INT------ o----/\/\/\----o----/\/\/\----o------ EXT | | | o----@@@@@@@---o----@@@@@@@---o | | | | | | === === === | | | | | | GND GND GND It doesn't fit the default ibis package model, so I can't choose the R_pkg, L_pkg and C_pkg. Still, I can't find ways using [Define Package Model] to deal with it. Can anyone give me a help? Thanks a lot, -Zheng Shi zheng@symmetry.com Los Altos, CA.