From owner-ibis Mon Jun 2 10:49:13 1997 Received: from actel.com (rigel-g.actel.com [204.33.232.16]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA12805; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ricky.sun_net ([190.9.2.228]) by actel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11875; Mon, 2 Jun 97 10:50:55 PDT Received: by ricky.sun_net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16843; Mon, 2 Jun 97 10:50:53 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 10:50:53 PDT From: scotts@actel.com (Scott Schlachter) Message-Id: <9706021750.AA16843@ricky.sun_net> To: chang@nexen.com, ibis-users@vhdl.org, ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Verifying IBIS models Cc: jem@ricky.actel.com Hi Luke, My oppinions here are my own, and not necessarily those of my company. I missed this when you first posted, but I feel compelled to input my oppinion on this. There has been discussion on the ibis reflector in the past regarding the accuracy of SPICE models, particularly in the diode voltage regions. For HSPICE in particular, we concluded that the only way to provide a "non-ideal" set of clamping diodes (for CMOS), the transistors' inherent diodes needed to be shut down (set IS=0, AD=0, and AS=0, I believe), and a descrete set of diodes placed on the drains of the transistors. This problem had something to do with the fact that there was no way to model the bulk resistance (the majority of the resistance that the inherent diodes should have experienced) without increasing channel resistance. The reason that I am even bringing this up here, is that I wanted to provide at least one example of a potential source of innacuracy of a *very* commonly used version of SPICE. We (painstakingly) developed our first IBIS model from a SPICE netlist, by attempting to add *all* possible parasitic components that we knew would exist in our actual silicon layout (resistance and capacitances in our metal interconnects, etc.). We discovered the above mentioned problem during this process, and sought advice throught this email reflector. What we found was that while a few companies that were participating on the reflector knew about and addressed this particular problem, there were definitely others that didn't. How well can you trust a vendors SPICE based IBIS model that you downloaded off the web? Not to sound too harsh, but roll the dice. Our hope was to produce a IBIS model based on silicon measurments, and then check to see how accurately the SPICE versions corellated. If they matched well, we knew that we would have a very usefull method of providing an IBIS model file to our customers, potentially even before we had silicon available. In addition, we wanted to be able to rely on the ramp data generated from the SPICE models, because we knew that this data would be extremely hard to extract from the Lab (on a packaged part, you have the package parasitics effecting the ramp; on an unpackaged die, you have parasitics added by the probe leads, etc.). What we found after doing our lab measurements, was that there was pretty good corellation between GND and VCC, but guess what? The diode regions were close, but still had some discrepencies (mostly around the knees). This, in my oppinion, is the ultimate test that you are asking for. However, when a vendor does this, they (like us) aren't going to bother releasing the SPICE based IBIS model - why should they, when they now have (the more accurate) silicon measurement based version that they can release instead? I'm not saying that SPICED based versions are untrustworthy; undoubtably there are some vendors that have developed extremely accurate SPICE models, even to the extent that they may have done all sorts of tricks so as to accurate model their netlists in the Voltage areas that are not traditionally dwelled in for development verification (more than a volt or 2 above VCC or below GND). But a behavioral model can only be as accurate as the thing that it's supposed to be behaving. If that "thing" is a SPICE netlist... I have just pointed out what I believe to be one definite shortcomming in one of the more popular SPICE versions out there. However, I also pointed out an unofficial workaround that *some* vendors are aware of. I'll let you draw your own conclusions. A last oppinion that I would like to make is this: I personally think that SPICED based IBIS model files should only be used as a last resort. The case where SPICE models for a new process are available, but the packaged silicon is not yet available, might be a good example - you might be interested in a chip vendors product even before it has hit the market, and this provides a way for you to initially simulate it's behavior on the new board that you are designing, now - before it can even be purchased. Otherwise, why bother? I am interested in hearing other vendors response to this. My conclusion was that extracting the data in the lab was 10x easier that struggling with trying to get the SPICE netlist to be as accurate as possible; and, the lab data is the "real thing" anyhow. Consequently, lab data can be screwed-up too, so ultimately you will need to either quiz the heck out of the vendor who created the model file as to their methodology (if they didn't describe it in total minute detail within the comments of their IBIS model files), or you will just have to trust them... -Scott Schlachter Design Engineering scotts@actel.com Actel Corporation Sunnyvale, CA > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Fri May 30 15:21:20 1997 > Luke Chang wrote: > > > When IC vendors create IBIS models for their components, how do they > > verify whether they are correct or not, compared to either the original > > SPICE models or to physical measurement data? Do they actually do this > > comparison? Is there a simulation methodology to do this comparison? > > > > I am just a user of IBIS models and will never create them. So I am > > mainly interested in knowing whether I can always (blindly) trust the > > models I get from the vendor Web sites or directly from the vendors. > > I suppose the usual disclaimers (I can't, strictly speaking, > speak for VLSI, much less other manufacturers) are in order. > That said, here's a little about our approach: > > 1) We SPICE the dickens out of I/O designs. > 2) We verify the SPICE characteristics in design > validation and test against them. > 3) We generate IBIS models from the SPICE models. > 4) We spot-compare SPICE simulations made from > hand-translating IBIS back to SPICE. > > We're in the process of converting the canonical > model for testing purposes from old-fashioned data > sheets to IBIS. We *intensely* wish we had a > working IBIS-to-SPICE translator that we could use > for closing the loop, but at present there don't > seem to be any around. > > -- > D. C. Sessions > dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com > From owner-ibis Tue Jun 3 04:45:28 1997 Received: from honcho.columbiasc.ncr.com ([153.78.17.231]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA01244 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM [153.78.122.72]) by honcho.columbiasc.ncr.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA01557 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:44:03 -0400 Received: by exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC6FF1.E6830940@exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:44:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Mellitz, Richard" To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" Subject: RE: SPICE Convergence Tricks - Consequences? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:44:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 70 TEXT FWIW: The following HSpice options is where I start from. .options interp reltol=0.0001 post=2 probe ingold=2 vntol=0.1u + lvltim=1 chgtol=0.01f brief nomod notop noelck nolist As colleague of say "Its sort of like 'sour dough starter'" Nothing seems to work "every time" for me. I usually have to twiddle around based on the what was done at the transistor level models. The toughest ones are the "sanitized spice" models. Many just do not work accurately at DC. ... Rich Mellitz, NCR Corp >---------- >From: Roland James Chang[SMTP:roland@sfu.ca] >Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 1997 4:02 PM >To: ibis-users@vhdl.org >Subject: SPICE Convergence Tricks - Consequences? > > >Once again, a big thanks to all who replied to my last question. :-) >I've been using several tricks to try to solve SPICE convergence >problems: > >-adding a 0.001ohm resistor in seris with the stimulating source >-increasing the value of the ITL1 to 300-500. (more iterations allowed) >-relaxing ABSTOL >-decreasing the sweep of the stimulus (I couldn't quite get this one to >work) > >Many people mentioned that convergence problems are quite common, I would >like to know how common are they? > >Furthermore, I am curious if anyone has a convergence fix that works >everytime, as it seems tedious to try to get things to converge everytime >just by trial and error fixes. > >Also, what kinds of side-effects, or problems (in terms of IBIS >modelling) have people encountered by forcing the analysis to converge via >fancy SPICE tricks? > >One last question regards clarification about typ, min, and max >curves. When one is generating curves for the typical case, >suppose the typical case passes but both the min and max fail, the columns >should read NA for min and max right? Now should I go back and try to >tweak the min and max to converge? OR are some curves meant to only work >for the typical case? > > >Many thanks in advance, >Regards, > >roland > >************************************************************************* >*Roland Chang | email: roland@sfu.ca * >*Simon Fraser University | OR * >*School of Engineering Science | chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca * >*3rd year Computer Engineering Option | * >************************************************************************* > > > > > > > > From owner-ibis Wed Jun 4 04:19:44 1997 Received: from ns.sbs.de (ns.sbs.de [194.112.84.17]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA25527 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.sbs.de (8.8.3/8.8.2) id NAA11055 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:20:36 +0200 (MDT) Received: from marina.fth.sbs.de(192.129.41.2) by ns via smap (v3.0.1) id sma011035; Wed, 4 Jun 97 13:20:14 +0200 Received: from r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de (r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de [142.120.5.16]) by marina.fth.sbs.de (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA02059 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:13:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sun100.nbgm.siemens.de (sun100.m30x.nbg.scn.de) by r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de with ESMTP (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA106813108; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:18:28 +0200 Received: from nathan. m30x.nbg.scn.de by sun100.nbgm.siemens.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA03175; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:18:17 +0200 Received: from nathan by nathan. m30x.nbg.scn.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA10242; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:18:16 +0200 Sender: zk3317@nbgm.siemens.de Message-Id: <33954EF7.6AD4@m30x.nbg.scn.de> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:18:15 +0200 From: Katja Zuleeg Organization: SIEMENS AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: PSpice to Ibis? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I need some help about Ibis Models. I want to change PSice models into ibis models. Where can I get s2ibis for windows? And is there an instruction included? Or is there a possibility to take the output of a PSpice simulation and read it into the s2ibis on a workstation? From owner-ibis Wed Jun 4 06:33:15 1997 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA27803 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 06:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id IAA29974 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:32:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ecad2.corp.mot.com (ECAD2.corp.mot.com [199.2.141.202]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id IAA26347 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:32:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706041332.IAA26347@pobox.mot.com> Received: by ecad2.corp.mot.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA086770836; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:27:16 -0500 From: Tim McKinney Subject: man pages To: ibis-users@vhdl.orgsend, the@ecad2.corp.mot.com, message@ecad2.corp.mot.com, to:@ecad2.corp.mot.com, ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 8:27:16 CDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] I have some questions about the s2ibis2 v1.1 conversion program. First of all I am new to IBIS, and am running into a few difficulties. So far I have not been able to successfully run the example files. I am encountering problems with dc sweep convergence. I read on a webpage to use the *[Iterate] switch, explained in the man pages. I haven't been able to find the man pages, I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I need to run the s2ibis2 program with a previously generated hspice output in order to avoid the dc convergence problems. This is what the switch is for. I also have the new s2iutil.c file which is suppossed to generate the data with four decimal places. It stated to replace the old file with the new one, and simply recompile using make depend make This is what I did using "make hpux", but received numerous errors. Maybe someone has an idea on how that is actually done. I hope someone can offer some assistance. I would also like to know where I can download the latest version of s2ibis2 I was told it is v1.3 Please reply directly to timmc@ecad2.corp.mot.com Thank you, Tim Mckinney From owner-ibis Wed Jun 4 08:28:29 1997 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA29872 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id KAA00994 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ecad2.corp.mot.com (ECAD2.corp.mot.com [199.2.141.202]) by mothost.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id KAA02265 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:26:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706041526.KAA02265@mothost.mot.com> Received: by ecad2.corp.mot.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA089687722; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:22:02 -0500 From: Tim McKinney Subject: ibis help To: ibis-users@vhdl.orgsend, the@ecad2.corp.mot.com, message@ecad2.corp.mot.com, to:@ecad2.corp.mot.com, ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:22:02 CDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] From owner-ibis Wed Jun 4 17:13:09 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA09047; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id RAA02740; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:10:29 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma002652; Wed, 4 Jun 97 17:10:20 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA13795 for ibis@vhdl.org; Wed, 4 Jun 97 17:12:03 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22691; Wed, 4 Jun 97 17:15:49 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 17:15:49 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9706050015.AA22691@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS model download URL update - National Cc: huq@rockie.nsc.com IBISfans, If you have bookmarked the National IBIS site, you need to update the URL. The new URL is: http://www.national.com/models Previous link will send you to an old site. Sorry for this inconvinience. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Thu Jun 5 14:37:21 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA01094; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24264; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC71BD.E9F841D0@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:36:54 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: Help with s2ibis2 utility: pullups on input pins, bidirectional pin modelling, etc. Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:36:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I have been toying around with IBIS for several weeks now, and am starting to feel a little bit more comfortable with it, but I am still new to it, and there are still many questions that I have. I asked the IBIS mail list previously about pullup input pins, and the following response made me wonder more about exactly how to model input pins with pull-up mechanisms. > 1. Inputs with pull-up resistors? > Are these treated in any special way? (ie: different than that of a > normal input pin?) >>For general IBIS modeling purposes, I think not. If the pull-up >>resistors are a permanent part of the input structure (not switchable >>on and off on-the-fly), then they just become a part of the [GND Clamp] >>and [POWER Clamp] V/I curves. >> Pullup resistors would appear in the Clamps. They are not separated >> out. So there is probable that they will be double counted. >> For Pullups, the contribution in the [Gnd Clamp] table should be >> should be subtracted. The [Power Clamp] table should be extended to >> from 0 to Vcc (and possibly linearly extrapolated to 2Vcc) to provide >> the separate Pullup resistor component. >>> How about in S2ibis2 utility? When S2ibis2 generates the tables=20 >>> automatically, are you saying that the tables will be incorrect for=20 >>> inputs with pull-ups on the input? Does this mean that I would have=20 >>> to manually change the IBIS file after the s2ibis2 utility is run? Or=20 >>> is there a way to correct for this in the s2ibis2 command file (*.s2I=20 >>> file)? >>>>The capability of separating the pullup contribution using s2ibis2 was >>>>not put in. Yes, you have to do this separately. The ranges of [Gnd >>>>Clamp] from -Vcc to Vcc, and [Power Clamp] from Vcc to 2 Vcc actually >>>>work only if the currents of both are at "0 mA" at Vcc and for some >>>>simulators, their linear Extrapolation remain at 0. Otherwise the >>>>tables should go the full range from -Vcc to 2 Vcc each. Some Spice >>>>models for ASICs have a separate control to add Pullups or Pulldowns. >>>>Again, the capability of dealing with this issue was not put into s2ibis2. >>>>As a practical matter, most of the pullup contribution is low (e.g., 75 uA). >>>>So for most analysis, the pullup contribution error is small. I am dealing with SPICE netlists of an input configuration that uses MOSFETs to provide the pull-up, not 'actual' resistors. Just to make sure I am completely clear on the matter, I would have to run s2ibis2 on the netlist file, and then go back and edit the resulting IBIS file manually, exactly what subtraction and manipulation would I have to perform on the clamp tables? 2. My second question pertains to how one would set up an s2ibis2 [pin] list for creating a single bidirectional pin? (in a similiar fashion as the tri-state pin is modelled in example two that came with s2ibis2 utility) 3. Following up on that point, I'm also wondering, when you generate IBIS models for a whole component, do you use a CAD package to assemble the individual pins (dummy models)? I ask this because, at the moment I am thinking of the following strategy of making an IBIS model for a component, and would appreciate your comments on this: component --> break down into BASIS SET of types of pins --> create a simple IBIS model for EACH member of the BASIS SET of pins, using s2ibis2 and the particular pin's SPICE netlist representing the I/O cell structure. (each pin type's .s2i file will be really simple, like the examples provided with the s2ibis2 utility.) --> import 'simple' INDIVIDUAL IBIS pin models into a higher level graphical CAD package, in a modular library fashion (the pin models, once created can be used and reused easily) --> attach package model (containing data such as mutual inductances between every pin, etc.) by linking individual pin models created earlier to pins on the component package --> CAD program then creates the finished IBIS file for the component, which is more error-free, than if created by hand. 4. Monotonicity warnings: How concerned should I be with these? I found these when I ran ibischk2 on an IBIS model for a simple tri-state driver created using s2ibis2. It gave the following message: Checking pt5t01.ibs for IBIS 2.1 Compatibility... WARNING (line 57) - Pulldown Maximum data is non-monotonic WARNING (line 63) - Pulldown Typical data is non-monotonic WARNING (line 69) - Pulldown Minimum data is non-monotonic WARNING (line 155) - Pullup Maximum data is non-monotonic WARNING (line 157) - Pullup Typical data is non-monotonic WARNING (line 164) - Pullup Minimum data is non-monotonic Errors : 0 Warnings: 6 File Passed The IBISv2.1 spec says the following: | The clamp curves of an input or I/O buffer can be measured | directly with a curve tracer, with the I/O buffer 3-stated. | However, sweeping enabled buffers results in curves that are | the sum of the clamping curves and the output structures. | Based on the assumption outlined above, the pull-up and | pull-down curves of an IBIS model must represent the | difference of the 3-stated and the enabled buffer's curves. | (Note that the resulting difference curve can demonstrate a | non-monotonic shape.) This requirement enables the simulator | to sum the curves, without the danger of double counting, and | arrive at an accurate model in both the 3-stated and enabled | conditions. | But the [Pullup] and [Pulldown] Curves that I generated were generated using s2ibis2, not measured on the bench. What should I do about the monotonicity warnings? I'm still relatively new to IBIS. I would appreciate any comments you can offer. I thank you all for your help in the past few weeks, and hope that you can help me again. I have only approx 2 months left now to finish creating IBIS models for all components at my company, so any help at all is always greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Roland ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 06:48:28 1997 Received: from gwsmtp.thomson.fr (gwsmtp.thomson.fr [193.48.25.140]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA17762 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: JEAN-MARC.J.M.C.CLAVEAU@RCM.thomson.fr Received: by gwsmtp.thomson.fr (1.0.242); 6 Jun 1997 15:40:07 +0200 X400-Received: by mta TFM-SMTP in /PRMD=internet/ADMD=atlas/C=fr; Relayed; 06 Jun 1997 15:35:34 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR; Relayed; 06 Jun 1997 10:02:07 +0000 Date: 06 Jun 1997 15:35:34 +0200 Delivery-Date: 06 Jun 1997 15:38:07 +0200 Message-Type: Multiple Part X400-Originator: JEAN-MARC.J.M.C.CLAVEAU@RCM.thomson.fr X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR;1600021206061997/A12571/BIGMAN] X400-Recipients: ibis-users@vhdl.org X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 Message-ID: <1600021206061997/A12571/BIGMAN/11B633013B00* @MHS> Importance: normal Subject: Search for IBIs models Autoforwarded: FALSE To: ibis-users@vhdl.org (Non Receipt Notification Requested) (Reply requested) Priority: normal Conversion: Allowed Conversion-With-Loss: Allowed Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Content-Identifier: 11B633013B00 Hello IBIS users, I am searching for IBIS models of RS232 and RS422 components : - MAX 232 AEWE - DS96174CN - DS96175CN If somebody can help me, thanks to send me a message. Best regards J-M ***************************** J-M Claveau EMC department THOMSON CSF RCM 1 bld Jean Moulin 78852 Elancourt cedex France e-mail : jean-marc.claveau@rcm.thomson.fr From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 06:58:56 1997 Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA17914 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us8rmc.bb.dec.com by mail11.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) id JAA17586; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrksys.enet by us8rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-17Jan97) id AA12974; Fri, 6 Jun 97 09:46:58 -0400 Message-Id: <9706061346.AA12974@us8rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from wrksys.enet; by us8rmc.enet; Fri, 6 Jun 97 09:56:15 EDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 97 09:56:15 EDT From: Andy Ingraham To: roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org, ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Subject: Re: Help with s2ibis2 utility: pullups on input pins, bidirectional pin modelling, etc. Again, these are comments from one who doesn't use the s2ibis* utility. > 1. Inputs with pull-up resistors? The two Clamp tables, [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp], are supposed to represent ALL currents when the device is not driving. For an input-only pin, that's everything, including pullup resistors. Don't let the "Clamp" in the name fool you into thinking they are only for clamps; they aren't. The reason there are two clamp tables rather than one, is that the currents into a real power clamp diode are dependent on the power supply voltage; they track it as it goes up and down. The easiest way to do that in a model is to split the current into two tables and make one of them Vcc-relative, which is exactly what IBIS does. Because the currents into a pullup resistor (or FET) connected to Vcc, also track Vcc as it goes up and down, these currents (associated with the pullup resistor/FET) also technically should go in the [Power Clamp] table. By the same token, if you had a pulldown resistor/FET, all of its currents should technically go in the [Gnd Clamp] table and none of it in the [Power Clamp] table. Now if you take a real part, or a SPICE model as a black box, and you sweep the input voltage and measure the current, you will get one curve, which you want to split into [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp] tables. With no further information, i.e., treating your device as a black box, you can't tell how much is due to pullups, pulldowns, transistors, clamp diodes, etc. About all you can do is split the curve at Vcc and put everything below Vcc in the [Gnd Clamp] table, and everything above Vcc in the [Power Clamp] table. This is probably what s2ibis* does. On the other hand, if you have a way to separately measure or characterize JUST the pullup FET current, and if you want to be technically correct (which gives you a slightly more accurate IBIS model), then what you should do is (a) subtract the pullup current from the [Gnd Clamp] table since the pullup contributes no current that is not Vcc-relative, (b) extend the [Power Clamp] table to both sides of Vcc, probably all the way from -Vcc to 2*Vcc, and (c) put the currents you subtracted from the [Gnd Clamp] table into the [Power Clamp] table. Just make sure that when you add the [Gnd Clamp] and Vcc-adjusted [Power Clamp] currents, you always end up with the total current into the input pin. Whether you need to do this, depends on the magnitude of the pullup current. If it's a 100k resistor, the currents are in the 50uA range. The "error" happens only when Vcc is not the same as it was when you ran s2ibis* (or measured a real part). If the difference in Vcc is about half a volt, and the MOSFET looks like a 100k resistor, the error is around 5uA. Is that enough to worry about? You decide. (On the other hand, half a volt can make a HUGE difference with a real clamp diode.) > 2. My second question pertains to how one would set up an s2ibis2 [pin] > list for creating a single bidirectional pin? (in a similiar fashion as > the tri-state pin is modelled in example two that came with s2ibis2 > utility) The entry in the [Pin] list should point to a model_name that is bidirectional. For example, in the IBIS spec "ver2_1.ibs": > [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin > | > 1 RAS0# Buffer1 200.0m 5.0nH 2.0pF > 2 RAS1# Buffer2 209.0m NA 2.5pF > 3 EN1# Input1 NA 6.3nH NA > 4 A0 3-state Pin 4 is probably a bidirectional pin. Elsewhere in the IBIS model, the "[Model] 3-state" section would define its characteristics. Bidirectional (I/O) just means tri-state with input capabilities. Thus, Vinl and Vinh must be specified. > 4. Monotonicity warnings: How concerned should I be with these? Monotonicity warnings are only warnings. They are not errors. Note that IBIS does not require monotonicity! IBIS talks about non- monotonicity simply because some simulators don't like it; so it's good to know at the time you create your models. > {paragraph quoted from IBIS v2.1 spec} > > But the [Pullup] and [Pulldown] Curves that I generated were generated > using s2ibis2, not measured on the bench. What should I do about the > monotonicity warnings? The paragraph you quoted from the IBIS spec applies equally to SPICE-generated models, as it does to lab-measured models. It just happens to have been written with a bias toward lab measurements. The process of creating pull-up and pull-down curves that are "the difference of the 3-stated and the enabled buffer's curves" is done regardless of where the data comes from. s2ibis* does it. Don't worry if your individual tables are non-monotonic. Look at the overall curves (either the swept data before being picked apart into IBIS tables, or after combining them back together again). If these are monotonic, don't worry. (It's unfortunate that ibischk* doesn't bother piecing the curves back together before checking for monotonicity ... and equally frustrating that the IBIS spec actually instructs ibischk* and any similar program to NOT piece the curves back together! How bass-ackwards!) IBIS models ought to be run through some tests on a simulator before releasing them. If there were monotonicity problems to worry about, that MIGHT catch some of them. (But it's no guarantee, since some simulators don't care, while others do.) Regards, Andy From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 07:29:59 1997 Received: from guelah.nexen.com (guelah.nexen.com [204.249.96.19]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA18433 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maelstrom.nexen.com (maelstrom.nexen.com [204.249.98.5]) by guelah.nexen.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20298; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach.nexen.com (bach.nexen.com [204.249.99.107]) by maelstrom.nexen.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04807; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chang@localhost) by bach.nexen.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10232; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Luke Chang Message-Id: <199706061428.KAA10232@bach.nexen.com> To: JEAN-MARC.J.M.C.CLAVEAU@rcm.thomson.fr Subject: Search for IBIs models Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Hi J-M, H.A.S. Electronics, Inc. (Marlboro, MA USA) specializes in creating IBIS models. Check out their Web site www.haselect.com and search their list of available models. I think you have to pay for them. Luke Chang Ascom Nexion, Inc. Acton, MA U. S. A. ----- Begin Included Message ----- From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Fri Jun 6 10:05:21 1997 From: JEAN-MARC.J.M.C.CLAVEAU@RCM.thomson.fr X400-Received: by mta TFM-SMTP in /PRMD=internet/ADMD=atlas/C=fr; Relayed; 06 Jun 1997 15:35:34 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR; Relayed; 06 Jun 1997 10:02:07 +0000 Date: 06 Jun 1997 15:35:34 +0200 Delivery-Date: 06 Jun 1997 15:38:07 +0200 Message-Type: Multiple Part X400-Originator: JEAN-MARC.J.M.C.CLAVEAU@RCM.thomson.fr X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR;1600021206061997/A12571/BIGMAN] X400-Recipients: ibis-users@vhdl.org X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 Importance: normal Subject: Search for IBIs models Autoforwarded: FALSE To: ibis-users@vhdl.org (Non Receipt Notification Requested) (Reply requested) Priority: normal Conversion: Allowed Conversion-With-Loss: Allowed Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Content-Identifier: 11B633013B00 Content-Length: 360 Hello IBIS users, I am searching for IBIS models of RS232 and RS422 components : - MAX 232 AEWE - DS96174CN - DS96175CN If somebody can help me, thanks to send me a message. Best regards J-M ***************************** J-M Claveau EMC department THOMSON CSF RCM 1 bld Jean Moulin 78852 Elancourt cedex France e-mail : jean-marc.claveau@rcm.thomson.fr ----- End Included Message ----- From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 09:00:44 1997 Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA20067; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA18986; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id IAA22856; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706061559.IAA22856@ichips.intel.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: examples needed for IBIS V3.1 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 08:59:52 -0700 From: Stephen Peters Hello All: I've been reading the mail talking about adding examples to the spec and/or the cookbook. It's a very good idea, especially in regards to the cookbook. Do you, the dedicated users of IBIS, have some specific examples in mind? Also, are there some specific areas of the spec that needs explanation or was particularly difficult to understand? I am in the process of updateing the cookbook for presentation at the IBIS face to face at DAC next week and your suggestions for cookbook improvement would be helpfull. Thanks, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 12:24:06 1997 Received: from relayhost.vlsi.com (tweety.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA23666 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (anubis.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.1]) by relayhost.vlsi.com (8.6.12/Hub-Perlotto/050895) with ESMTP id NAA16397 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:37:47 -0700 Received: from mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.5]) by relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/101195) with ESMTP id MAA29114 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:22:43 -0700 Received: from witsend ([134.27.133.12]) by mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA16922 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:22:42 -0700 Sender: dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com (D.C. Sessions) Message-ID: <33986381.ED0@tempe.vlsi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 12:22:41 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: examples needed for IBIS V3.1 References: <9706061739.AA11399@rockie.nsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Syed Huq wrote: > One helpful thing would be to put a model example that has > data of almost all the model types and with all the optional > parameters that IBIS supports. This may not be a 'true' > device but would serve as a 'example' only. Model types > meaning, open_drain, ECL, PECL, CMOS etc etc and there is > a LOT of optional parameters .... Just to be contrary, I'd think that it is better to have several VERY simple examples rather than one complex one where the (terrified) user has a hard time finding what she needs. Some degree of compromise is probabably optimal. but KISS. -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 12:44:43 1997 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA23992 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id OAA29099 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:43:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ecad2.corp.mot.com (ECAD2.corp.mot.com [199.2.141.202]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id OAA09020 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:43:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706061943.OAA09020@pobox.mot.com> Received: by ecad2.corp.mot.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA276115927; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:38:47 -0500 From: Tim McKinney Subject: multiple models To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:38:47 CDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] From owner-ibis Fri Jun 6 10:38:00 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA21909; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA21529; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:33:44 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma021179; Fri, 6 Jun 97 10:33:20 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA25510 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 6 Jun 97 10:35:15 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11399; Fri, 6 Jun 97 10:39:04 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 97 10:39:04 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9706061739.AA11399@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org, sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: examples needed for IBIS V3.1 Hi, One helpful thing would be to put a model example that has data of almost all the model types and with all the optional parameters that IBIS supports. This may not be a 'true' device but would serve as a 'example' only. Model types meaning, open_drain, ECL, PECL, CMOS etc etc and there is a LOT of optional parameters .... Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Fri Jun 6 10:31:04 1997 > To: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: examples needed for IBIS V3.1 > Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 08:59:52 -0700 > From: Stephen Peters > > > Hello All: > > I've been reading the mail talking about adding examples to the > spec and/or the cookbook. It's a very good idea, especially in > regards to the cookbook. Do you, the dedicated users of IBIS, have > some specific examples in mind? Also, are there some specific areas of the > spec that needs explanation or was particularly difficult to understand? > I am in the process of updateing the cookbook for presentation at the > IBIS face to face at DAC next week and your suggestions for > cookbook improvement would be helpfull. > > Thanks, > Stephen Peters > Intel Corp. > > From owner-ibis Sat Jun 7 14:02:58 1997 Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA19230 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us8rmc.bb.dec.com by mail11.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) id QAA15186; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrksys.enet by us8rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-17Jan97) id AA23596; Sat, 7 Jun 97 16:37:50 -0400 Message-Id: <9706072037.AA23596@us8rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from wrksys.enet; by us8rmc.enet; Sat, 7 Jun 97 16:58:32 EDT Date: Sat, 7 Jun 97 16:58:32 EDT From: Andy Ingraham To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Cc: ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: examples needed for IBIS V3.1 D. C. Sessions wrote: > Just to be contrary, I'd think that it is better to have > several VERY simple examples rather than one complex one > where the (terrified) user has a hard time finding what > she needs. I whole-heartedly agree! We already have example fragments with all the keywords and many of the optional parameters, right in the IBIS spec document itself. What we need are plain and simple examples with only what's needed to get started. All the extra keywords and parameters come with experience and fine-tuning. There is/was an example file with the version 1.0 spec. In fact I think it's still there. Try this URL: ftp://ftp.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ver1.0/n74f244n.ibs Some of the models in the ibis/models/ directory also might be worth using. Unfortunately, that directory seems to have fallen into disrepair these days.... Regards, Andy Ingraham From owner-ibis Mon Jun 9 13:32:42 1997 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA06851 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id PAA04328 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:31:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ecad2.corp.mot.com (ECAD2.corp.mot.com [199.2.141.202]) by mothost.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id PAA02755 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:31:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706092031.PAA02755@mothost.mot.com> Received: by ecad2.corp.mot.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA097848082; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:28:02 -0500 From: Tim McKinney Subject: pin modeling To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 15:28:01 CDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] I am using s2ibis2 ver1.1 and am having trouble modeling pins. I am not sure when to use the input and enable specifications. The man pages are not very clear with that description. Does anyone have a better description as how to model pins? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Tim McKinney From owner-ibis Thu Jun 12 10:42:09 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA17468; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21495; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC771D.1BA77ED0@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:40:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:40:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am using s2ibis2 and HSPICE netlists to generate IBIS files. I am using s2ibis2 to first generate IBIS models for the inidividual "types" of pins, and then cutting and pasting the [Model] portion of the individual IBIS pin models into a larger "main" IBIS file which describes the entire component. This saves having to set up s2ibis2 for generating the entire component all at once. Once created, I can use and reuse IBIS pin models for pins on the component that are identical in nature. Is there any problem with the IBIS model generation scheme I've outlined above? I would especially like to hear from other people who have worked with s2ibis2 and SPICE to create their IBIS models. Secondly, I am now faced with how to setup both the s2ibis2 *.s2i file and the IBIS file for some PECL (Pseudo-ECL) differential inputs. Has anyone had to generate IBIS models for pins that are both differential and Pseudo-ECL(or ECL) before? How does s2ibis2 handle the [Diff pin] Keyword, and associated pin list section? In the s2ibis2 manual, it says that no processing is actually performed on the [Diff pin] list. Does this mean that I could create a single ECL input pin first using s2ibis2, include the [Model] section of the single ECL input IBIS file into a 'main' IBIS file for a component, connect the model name to appropriate pins on the component, and then add the [Diff pin] pin list later in the actual 'main' IBIS file for the component? Thirdly, how are analog I/O pins treated in IBIS and s2ibis2? How would I setup an analog I/O pin in s2ibis2 and IBIS? And finally, are the Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref parameters used for anything in s2ibis2, or in IBIS files? (are they actually processed? or are they just for reference) Thanx for your time, Roland ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** From owner-ibis Fri Jun 13 00:00:11 1997 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA00731 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id XAA12696; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lancer.cadence.com(158.140.127.18) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma866185156.012691; Thu Jun 12 23:59:16 1997 Received: (from srinu@localhost) by lancer.cadence.com (8.6.8/8.6.8) id MAA16875; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:30:21 +0531 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:30:21 +0531 From: Srinivas Gande Message-Id: <199706130659.MAA16875@lancer.cadence.com> To: roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Subject: RE: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Hi chang, Included inline comments. Please someone correct me, if I made any mistake. > Hello, I am using s2ibis2 and HSPICE netlists to generate IBIS files. I > am using s2ibis2 to first generate IBIS models for the inidividual > "types" of pins, and then cutting and pasting the [Model] portion of the > individual IBIS pin models into a larger "main" IBIS file which > describes the entire component. This saves having to set up s2ibis2 for > generating the entire component all at once. Once created, I can use > and reuse IBIS pin models for pins on the component that are identical > in nature. Is there any problem with the IBIS model generation scheme > I've outlined above? I would especially like to hear from other people > who have worked with s2ibis2 and SPICE to create their IBIS models. This is correct way of doing. > > Secondly, I am now faced with how to setup both the s2ibis2 *.s2i file > and the IBIS file for some PECL (Pseudo-ECL) differential inputs. Has > anyone had to generate IBIS models for pins that are both differential > and Pseudo-ECL(or ECL) before? How does s2ibis2 handle the [Diff pin] > Keyword, and associated pin list section? In the s2ibis2 manual, it says > that no processing is actually performed on the [Diff pin] list. Does > this mean that I could create a single ECL input pin first using > s2ibis2, include the [Model] section of the single ECL input IBIS file > into a 'main' IBIS file for a component, connect the model name to > appropriate pins on the component, and then add the [Diff pin] pin list > later in the actual 'main' IBIS file for the component? For PECL & ECL:-- In s2i define [Pullup Reference] and [Pulldown Reference] to VCC. [Model type] to be of Ouput_ECL or Input_ECL. Rest of the s2i is simillar (Voltage Range not required). The vout variation for pullup and pulldown from VCC to VCC-2.2 . In IBIS tablular format you refer to VCC. I encountered a problem in using s2ibis2 for PECL (5V) device. You can edit the *.spi files set up by s2ibis2 and use [iterate] option to process SPICE input files in accordance with specs. I also found problem in tabulating IBIS file by reading *.out files. [Diff pin] is not processed by s2ibis2. It's right to add [Diff] section at the end. > > Thirdly, how are analog I/O pins treated in IBIS and s2ibis2? How would > I setup an analog I/O pin in s2ibis2 and IBIS? Scope of IBIS is restricted to analog behaviour of Digital ICS. I am not sure what you really mean by analog I/O pin ?. > > And finally, are the Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref parameters used for > anything in s2ibis2, or in IBIS files? (are they actually processed? or > are they just for reference) No they are not used. This information is reference for IBIS based simulators. > ..srinu .\\\. (~ ~) #0-0# __________________.oOo__( ! )__oOo.__________________ (_) \^/ (_) | | Srinivas Gande | | | | CADENCE DESIGN SYSTEMS(INDIA) | | | | B-9, N.E.P.Z | | | | NOIDA U.P. | | | | Phone : +91-11-8-544100(Home) | | | | Phone : +91-11-8-562842(Work) | | | | Fax : +91-11-8-562843 | | | | email : srinu@cadence.com | | | |__________________.oooO_|_Oooo.__________________| | (_) ( ) ( ) (_) \ ( ) / \_) (_/ From owner-ibis Fri Jun 13 15:50:37 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA17741 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA24599; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:46:38 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma024539; Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:46:33 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA15236 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:49:28 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06155; Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:53:24 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:53:24 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9706132253.AA06155@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Subject: Re: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref Hi Roland, I can share with you my experience regarding your first question. I have developed IBIS models from HSPICE using the s2ibis2 and I did exactly what you described. With this approach of translating individual 'types' of pins, you can solve problems easily if they occur. But, as you pointed out, you do have to put all the individually run models back into 'ONE' entire IBIS model. The parser test will help you debug if any manual errors were introduced during the cut and paste. I believe the Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref are for timing information for the simulator only. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Thu Jun 12 12:10:52 1997 > From: Roland Chang > To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , > "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" > > Subject: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:40:54 -0700 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hello, I am using s2ibis2 and HSPICE netlists to generate IBIS files. I > am using s2ibis2 to first generate IBIS models for the inidividual > "types" of pins, and then cutting and pasting the [Model] portion of the > individual IBIS pin models into a larger "main" IBIS file which > describes the entire component. This saves having to set up s2ibis2 for > generating the entire component all at once. Once created, I can use > and reuse IBIS pin models for pins on the component that are identical > in nature. Is there any problem with the IBIS model generation scheme > I've outlined above? I would especially like to hear from other people > who have worked with s2ibis2 and SPICE to create their IBIS models. > > Secondly, I am now faced with how to setup both the s2ibis2 *.s2i file > and the IBIS file for some PECL (Pseudo-ECL) differential inputs. Has > anyone had to generate IBIS models for pins that are both differential > and Pseudo-ECL(or ECL) before? How does s2ibis2 handle the [Diff pin] > Keyword, and associated pin list section? In the s2ibis2 manual, it says > that no processing is actually performed on the [Diff pin] list. Does > this mean that I could create a single ECL input pin first using > s2ibis2, include the [Model] section of the single ECL input IBIS file > into a 'main' IBIS file for a component, connect the model name to > appropriate pins on the component, and then add the [Diff pin] pin list > later in the actual 'main' IBIS file for the component? > > Thirdly, how are analog I/O pins treated in IBIS and s2ibis2? How would > I setup an analog I/O pin in s2ibis2 and IBIS? > > And finally, are the Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref parameters used for > anything in s2ibis2, or in IBIS files? (are they actually processed? or > are they just for reference) > > > Thanx for your time, > > Roland > > ****************************************** > Roland Chang ext. 2647 > > PMC-Sierra > Applications Department > 105-8555 Baxter Place > Burnaby, BC > V5A 4V7 > Tel: (604) 415-6000 > > email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca > ****************************************** > From owner-ibis Sun Jun 15 14:49:04 1997 Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA04974 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us8rmc.bb.dec.com (us8rmc.bb.dec.com [16.53.0.44]) by mail11.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) with SMTP id RAA16387; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrksys.enet by us8rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-17Jan97) id AA17549; Sun, 15 Jun 97 17:41:00 -0400 Message-Id: <9706152141.AA17549@us8rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from wrksys.enet; by us8rmc.enet; Sun, 15 Jun 97 17:44:15 EDT Date: Sun, 15 Jun 97 17:44:15 EDT From: Andy Ingraham To: roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org, ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, roland_chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca Subject: RE: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref > > Thirdly, how are analog I/O pins treated in IBIS and s2ibis2? How would > > I setup an analog I/O pin in s2ibis2 and IBIS? > > Scope of IBIS is restricted to analog behaviour of Digital ICS. > I am not sure what you really mean by analog I/O pin ?. On a mixed-signal IC, analog pins would not have models in the IBIS file. It seems like one might use "NA" as the model_name under the [Pin] keyword, to signify that these pins have no available IBIS data. However, that is not allowed. Instead, use "NC". Technically incorrect, but it tells the IBIS parser to skip those pins. [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin | 1 RAS0# Buffer1 200.0m 5.0nH 2.0pF 2 RAS1# Buffer2 209.0m NA 2.5pF 3 Analog_out NC ... Regards, Andy Ingraham From owner-ibis Mon Jun 16 09:10:05 1997 Received: from ns.sbs.de (ns.sbs.de [194.112.84.17]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA24158 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.sbs.de (8.8.3/8.8.2) id SAA17792 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:10:33 +0200 (MDT) Received: from marina.fth.sbs.de(192.129.41.2) by ns via smap (v3.0.1) id sma017742; Mon, 16 Jun 97 18:09:58 +0200 Received: from r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de (r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de [142.120.5.16]) by marina.fth.sbs.de (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA24530 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:03:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sun100.nbgm.siemens.de (sun100.m30x.nbg.scn.de) by r316.m30x.nbg.scn.de with ESMTP (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA035877282; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:08:02 +0200 Received: from nathan.nbgm.siemens.de by sun100.nbgm.siemens.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA27326; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:07:55 +0200 Received: from nathan by nathan.nbgm.siemens.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08613; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:07:56 +0200 Sender: zk3317@nbgm.siemens.de Message-Id: <33A564DB.12D1@m30x.nbg.scn.de> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:07:55 +0200 From: Katja Zuleeg Organization: SIEMENS AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: differential driver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am trying to generate an Ibis-model for a differential driver. Does anybody know of an example for me to look at? The device is the differential Bus Transceiver LSI-ALS176D. Perhaps there exists a model yet? thanks, Katja Zuleeg -- email: Katja.Zuleeg@nbgm.siemens.de und Katja.Zuleeg@uni-bayreuth.de SIEMENS AG, AUT E 1373, Gleiwitzerstr. 555, 90475 Nuernberg, Germany Tel.: (+49 911) 895-3317 Fax: (+49 911) 895-3055 From owner-ibis Mon Jun 16 13:51:53 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA28932 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id NAA26217; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:47:30 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma025873; Mon, 16 Jun 97 13:47:03 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA04051 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Mon, 16 Jun 97 13:50:12 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26060; Mon, 16 Jun 97 13:54:11 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 13:54:11 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9706162054.AA26060@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, zk3317@nbgm.siemens.de Subject: Re: differential driver Katja The National Semiconductor web site has various Differential IBIS models under http://www.national.com/models Select IBIS and then 'Interface'. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Mon Jun 16 10:54:39 1997 > Sender: zk3317@nbgm.siemens.de > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:07:55 +0200 > From: Katja Zuleeg > Organization: SIEMENS AG > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) > To: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: differential driver > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi, > > I am trying to generate an Ibis-model for a differential driver. Does > anybody know of an example for me to look at? > The device is the differential Bus Transceiver LSI-ALS176D. > Perhaps there exists a model yet? > > thanks, > > Katja Zuleeg > -- > email: Katja.Zuleeg@nbgm.siemens.de und Katja.Zuleeg@uni-bayreuth.de > SIEMENS AG, AUT E 1373, Gleiwitzerstr. 555, 90475 Nuernberg, Germany > Tel.: (+49 911) 895-3317 Fax: (+49 911) 895-3055 > From owner-ibis Mon Jun 16 14:12:56 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA29280; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12347; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC7A5F.528AC840@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:12:28 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: Wanted: Example ECL or PECL IBIS model Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:12:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again, I am not that familiar with ECL or PECL (Pseudo-ECL), and I have received some help already on this matter, I am now seeking an example IBIS file with ECL or PECL differential pins modelled? Does anyone know where to find one? Again, I would especially like to hear from anyone who has had experience with converting spice netlists of ECL or PECL pins to ibis using the s2ibis2 utility, and what kind of special pitfalls, etc. that I should be aware of. thanks to all those who have helped me out with IBIS so far! I am glad to say that I am almost finished my first complete IBIS file - I don't know where I'd be without this maillist, I really appreciate everyone's openness and willingness to help. THANX Roland ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** From owner-ibis Mon Jun 16 15:54:35 1997 Received: from falcon.webpros.com (falcon.professionals.com [206.127.192.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA00997 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monterey.indusinc.com (ppp-1-188.professionals.com [206.127.193.188]) by falcon.webpros.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA12034 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from milan@localhost) by monterey.indusinc.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id PAA04961 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Milan Gandhi Message-Id: <199706162251.PAA04961@monterey.indusinc.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Question on Ramp X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Hi, This is our first experience with IBIS, so this might be a trivial issue for you experienced folks !! We are getting Ramp (dV/dt) as 0 in ibis inspite of providing required Voltage values. What should we be looking for in order to get correct Ramp values in Ibis model. We are using tools from NC university. -Thanks, Milan From owner-ibis Mon Jun 16 17:06:37 1997 Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA02176 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20772 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id RAA09742; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706170005.RAA09742@ichips.intel.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Question on Ramp Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:05:37 -0700 From: Stephen Peters Hello Milan: Well....the first thing that poped into my mind was: double check that you are supplying a stimulas waveform to the input (i.e. telling the output buffer to switch). You might also check the state of any control inputs on the buffer and make sure that that buffer is not in 3-state mode or otherwise disabled. I hope this helps. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. Hi, This is our first experience with IBIS, so this might be a trivial issue for you experienced folks !! We are getting Ramp (dV/dt) as 0 in ibis inspite of providing required Voltage values. What should we be looking for in order to get correct Ramp values in Ibis model. We are using tools from NC university. -Thanks, Milan From owner-ibis Tue Jun 17 08:34:48 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA18562 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id IAA19000; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:30:15 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma018523; Tue, 17 Jun 97 08:29:47 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA27794 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Tue, 17 Jun 97 08:32:53 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24788; Tue, 17 Jun 97 08:36:47 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 08:36:47 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9706171536.AA24788@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, milan@indusinc.com Subject: Re: Question on Ramp Milan, s2ibis2 will add 50Ohms pullup and pulldown to calculate dV/dt_f and dV/dt_r values. You can try changing these values to see if your device will switch or not. ...in your .s2i file: [Rising waveform] 500 0 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA [Falling waveform] 500 3.3 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA Try changing the sim time to a larger number too in your .s2i file [sim time] 10ns Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Mon Jun 16 17:27:09 1997 > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Milan Gandhi > To: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Question on Ramp > X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > > Hi, > This is our first experience with IBIS, so this might > be a trivial issue for you experienced folks !! > > We are getting Ramp (dV/dt) as 0 in ibis inspite of > providing required Voltage values. > What should we be looking for in order to get > correct Ramp values in Ibis model. > We are using tools from NC university. > > -Thanks, Milan > From owner-ibis Wed Jun 18 10:35:08 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA15221 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29760 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC7BD3.3715E930@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:34:35 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'Arpad_Muranyi@ccm.fm.intel.com'" Cc: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" Subject: PECL and TTL programmable buffer? Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:34:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, thumbing through the BIRDs, I found BIRD30.2, which talks about programmable buffers. I have a pair of differential pins, which can accept PECL differential inputs, or if the (-) pin is grounded, the (+) pin can be used as TTL Logic level input. How would I model this in IBIS? would I use programmable buffers? if so, can you give an example of how I might model this pair of pins using programmable buffers? Also, a general question, how many of the BIRDs are actually incorporated into the ibischk syntax checker? thanx, Roland ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** From owner-ibis Wed Jun 18 12:54:16 1997 Received: from fw.icx.com (root@fw.icx.com [205.238.6.33]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA17187; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fw.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #1) id ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chane.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #5) id ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bob.icx.com via send-mail with stdio id for bob; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:53:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #7 built 1997-Jun-4) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, ibis@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS Version 3.0 on vhdl.org To IBIS Committee: I have uploaded the approved IBIS Version 3.0 specification to vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/ver3.0/ver3_0.ibs (also ver3_0.txt). Please destroy any prior versions you may have obtained under the wip directory since they are not valid. IBIS Version 3.0 was ratified at the June 12, 1997 EIA/IBIS Open Forum Summit meeting. The uploaded version contains some minor editoral changes for format consistency and alignment and some other changes such as replacing IV "curves" with "tables". The new features based on approved BIRDs contained in Version 3.0 consists of these extensions: [Model Selector] keyword for programmable buffers (BIRD30.2) [TTgnd], [TTpower] keywords for stored charge effects (BIRD34.2) [Driver Schedule] keyword for multi-staged outputs (BIRD35.3) Electrical Board Description for .ebd file and keywords(BIRD36.3): [Begin Board Description], [Manufacturer], [Number Of Pins], [PIn List], [Path Description], [Reference Designator Map], [End Board Description] Package Model Extensions (BIRD28.3 and BIRD37.3): [Number Of Sections], [Pin Numbers] extension, [Model Spec] keyword and subparameters (BIRD39 and BIRD40) Series and Series Switch Extensions (BIRD41.8) including keywords: Under [Component]: [Series Switch Groups], [Series Pin Mapping] Under [Model] [Series Current], [Series MOSFET] for IV data [R Series], [L Series], [Rl Series], [C Series], [Rc Series], [Lc Series] for RLC series paths [On], [Off] for Series_switch models [Component] test point subparameters (BIRD43) Bob Ross Interconnectix From owner-ibis Thu Jun 19 13:21:25 1997 Received: from fw.icx.com (root@fw.icx.com [205.238.6.33]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA09997 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fw.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #1) id ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chane.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #5) id ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bob.icx.com via send-mail with stdio id for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #7 built 1997-Jun-4) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:20:15 -0700 (PDT) From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: PECL and TTL programmable buffer? Roland: Some responses below. Bob Ross Interconnectix > From: Roland Chang > To: "'Arpad_Muranyi@ccm.fm.intel.com'" > Cc: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" > Subject: PECL and TTL programmable buffer? > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:34:33 -0700 > Hello, > thumbing through the BIRDs, I found BIRD30.2, which talks about > programmable buffers. > I have a pair of differential pins, which can accept PECL differential > inputs, or if the (-) pin is grounded, the (+) pin can be used as TTL > Logic level input. > How would I model this in IBIS? would I use programmable buffers? if so, > can you give an example of how I might model this pair of pins using > programmable buffers? I don't think that the BIRD30.2 extension covers situations of differential and non-differential inputs. So I would construct two IBIS Models, one with differential Inputs and the other without the differential inputs, and load the appropriate models. > Also, a general question, how many of the BIRDs are actually > incorporated into the ibischk syntax checker? The ibischk2 parser should cover all of the functionality of Version 2.1. This includes the functionality of Version 1.1 plus BIRDs 1-26 and BIRD29.2. (Some of these were not approved). Check http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/birds/birddir.txt for a history and of inclusions of BIRDs into the various Versions of IBIS. > thanx, > Roland > ****************************************** > Roland Chang ext. 2647 > PMC-Sierra > Applications Department > 105-8555 Baxter Place > Burnaby, BC > V5A 4V7 > Tel: (604) 415-6000 > email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca > ****************************************** From owner-ibis Mon Jun 23 14:09:24 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA04014; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17727; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC7FDE.FAB4C730@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:08:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'Andy Ingraham'" Cc: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: RE:analog pins in IBIS - request for clarification Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:08:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I understand it, I should put "NC" as the model name in the [Pin] section for analog pins, but I have a few follow-up questions as well that I hope people can answer for me. What is the difference between including the analog pin under the [Pin] keyword, and then putting "NC" beside it, versus omitting the pin altogether? Also, if I specify an analog pin in the [Pin] section with "NC" what should I put in the [Pin Mapping] section for that pin? (Incidentally, I know which power buses power up the analog pins) For example, say I knew that pins 5 and 9 are analog power and ground for pin 10( which is an analog pin), would it hurt to list pins 5 and 9 as the pullup and pulldown reference for pin 10? What if the analog pins that I am dealing with are a set of differential pins (+) and (-) pair, do I include them in the [Diff Pin] section as well? even though they have no vdiff specification? and have "NC" as their model in the [Pin] section? Finally, this may be a really stupid question, but I feel that I don't quite understand why IBIS doesn't handle analog pins. Could someone please enlighten me on this matter? Again, your help is much appreciated, Roland Chang ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** >-----Original Message----- >From: Andy Ingraham [SMTP:ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com] >Sent: June 15, 1997 2:44 PM >To: Roland Chang; Roland Chang; ibis-users@vhdl.org >Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org; ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com >Subject: RE: IBIS component generation, PECL differential inputs, analog I/O >pins, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref > >> > Thirdly, how are analog I/O pins treated in IBIS and s2ibis2? How would >> > I setup an analog I/O pin in s2ibis2 and IBIS? >> >> Scope of IBIS is restricted to analog behaviour of Digital ICS. >> I am not sure what you really mean by analog I/O pin ?. > >On a mixed-signal IC, analog pins would not have models in the IBIS >file. > >It seems like one might use "NA" as the model_name under the [Pin] >keyword, to signify that these pins have no available IBIS data. >However, that is not allowed. Instead, use "NC". Technically >incorrect, but it tells the IBIS parser to skip those pins. > >[Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin >| > 1 RAS0# Buffer1 200.0m 5.0nH 2.0pF > 2 RAS1# Buffer2 209.0m NA 2.5pF > 3 Analog_out NC >... > >Regards, >Andy Ingraham From owner-ibis Mon Jun 23 14:37:37 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA04453; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17970; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC7FE2.F1CF91A0@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:37:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: crystal oscillator inputs and outputs in IBIS Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:37:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I was wondering how crystal oscillator inputs and outputs are specified in IBIS? thanx, Roland ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ****************************************** From owner-ibis Wed Jun 25 06:44:16 1997 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA09662 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id IAA06545 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:43:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ecad2.corp.mot.com (ECAD2.corp.mot.com [199.2.141.202]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id IAA11540 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:43:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706251343.IAA11540@pobox.mot.com> Received: by ecad2.corp.mot.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA219596001; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:40:01 -0500 From: Tim McKinney Subject: i/o buffers To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 8:40:01 CDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] I have a question regarding modeling a component with seperate input and output buffers. There is an internal output and input that I can't place in the pin list. An output pin must have its input specified as a pin. My question is how do I model these two seperate buffers in the same s2ibis2 conversion header file? I have been able to run two seperate models using the internal nodes, but not just one overall model. Please advise, Tim McKinney From owner-ibis Wed Jun 25 14:46:16 1997 Received: from procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.115.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA18065; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca [134.87.116.185]) by procyon.pmc-sierra.bc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09433; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8176.7B84DC40@nt-server1.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:45:53 -0700 Message-ID: From: Roland Chang To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" , "'ibis-info@vhdl.org'" Subject: correction of pullup resistor on bidirectional pin with pullup. Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:45:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I am trying to model a bidirectional pin, with a pullup(transistor) on the input. I know that for an input-only pin, I can correct for the pullup (transistor) current by subtracting the pullup current from the [GND clamp] V/I curve, and placing it in the [POWER clamp] V/I curve (extending the range the power clamp curve at the same time) but, how about a bidirectional (I/O) pin with a pullup on the input? depending on how s2ibis2 calculates the pullup and pulldown curves, By changing the power clamp and ground clamp curves(by manual text editing after s2ibis2 has run) it maybe that when the curves are added back together by a simulator, that the curves will then be incorrect? I would appreciate any comments on this, Thanx in advance, Roland Chang ****************************************** Roland Chang ext. 2647 PMC-Sierra Applications Department 105-8555 Baxter Place Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7 Tel: (604) 415-6000 email: chang@pmc-sierra.bc.ca ******************************************