From owner-ibis Fri Oct 1 14:51:47 1999 Received: from mailgw.chips.ibm.com (mailgw.chips.ibm.com [192.91.197.8]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA24490 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (mailrelay.btv.ibm.com [9.66.15.39]) by mailgw.chips.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA43134 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:50:52 -0400 Received: from tornado.btv.ibm.com (tornado.btv.ibm.com [9.66.108.55]) by mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23526; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:50:23 -0400 Received: from tornado.btv.ibm.com (jhayes@localhost) by tornado.btv.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA32312; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:51:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199910012151.RAA32312@tornado.btv.ibm.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: ibis-users@eda.org cc: jhayes@btv.ibm.com Subject: Modeling question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:51:03 -0400 From: Jerry Hayes I am attempting to create a v2.1 ibis model for a driver that is essentially an I/O_open_drain with internal pullup termination. I have created various ibis models for this driver ... however none of them are correlating well to spice due to the internal pullup. Can anyone suggest the proper modeling technique for this type of driver? Helpful suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jerry Hayes From owner-ibis Fri Oct 1 16:28:31 1999 Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA25254 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net ([209.79.182.160]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIY003L76II31@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for ibis-users@eda.org; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:27:38 -0700 From: jonp@pacbell.net Subject: Re: Modeling question To: Jerry Hayes Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Reply-to: jonp@pacbell.net Message-id: <37F5436A.C4A80F0E@postoffice.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910012151.RAA32312@tornado.btv.ibm.com> Jerry, I think the problem is that the "pullup" part of the model is always turned on. (IBIS simulators expect it to turn off during the falling edge and this is probably happening by default in your model) I have two ideas to try: 1) Remove the pullup, make the model, and then put the pullup in by hand as a part of the shunt curve. 2) Make the model as regular but do not make a "pull-up" measurement (or set it all to zero) and once again let the pull-up curve reside in the shunt part of the model. regards, Jon Powell Manager, High Speed Consulting Services, Viewlogic Systems From owner-ibis Fri Oct 1 16:57:25 1999 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA25536 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id QAA09001; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub2.Cadence.COM(158.140.128.8) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma938822229.008983; Fri, 1 Oct 99 16:57:09 -0700 Received: from pc-donaldt1 (sj6-lras-245033 [158.140.245.33]) by mailhub.Cadence.COM (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25734; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991001165508.00a4be10@eudora1> X-Sender: donaldt@eudora1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:55:08 -0700 To: Jerry Hayes From: Donald Telian Subject: Re: Modeling question Cc: ibis-users@eda.org In-Reply-To: <199910012151.RAA32312@tornado.btv.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Jerry, You can hide the pullup in the PowerClamp, such as: [POWER Clamp Reference] 2.5V NA NA [POWER Clamp] -2.5V 16.67mA NA NA | Use: V= -1*[POWER Clamp Reference], I=([POWER Clamp Reference]/resistor_value) 0.0V 0mA NA NA 2.5V -16.67mA NA NA | Use: V=[POWER Clamp Reference], I= -1*([POWER Clamp Reference]/resistor_value) This example ties a 150 Ohm resistor to 2.5 volts and leaves it there even if the output tri-states. Donald Telian CADENCE At 05:51 PM 10/01/1999 -0400, Jerry Hayes wrote: > >I am attempting to create a v2.1 ibis model for a driver that is >essentially an I/O_open_drain with internal pullup termination. >I have created various ibis models for this driver ... however none >of them are correlating well to spice due to the internal pullup. >Can anyone suggest the proper modeling technique for this type of >driver? Helpful suggestions are greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, >Jerry Hayes > > > > Donald Telian Cadence Design Systems phone: 408-944-7791 email: donaldt@cadence.com From owner-ibis Fri Oct 1 16:10:54 1999 Received: from mail.nesa.com (mail.nesa.com [204.240.29.34]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA25160; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porky (porky.nesa.com [204.240.29.45]) by mail.nesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28089; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:47:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001165545.0098e8a0@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:55:45 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS Summit - Thursday, 14-Oct-99 - updated AGENDA included Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, If you are interested in attending the IBIS summit, and have not responded, please reply to this message. Attached you will find the Draft Agenda for the meeting. ************************************************************ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, October 14, 1999 Location: Marlboro Holiday Inn (NOT AT THE BOXBORO HOLIDAY INN THIS YEAR) 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 481-3000 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA), Hyperlynx, Praegitzer Design PCB Conference: October 11-15, 1999 East Royal Plaza Trade Center Marlborough, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. ************************************************************ PROPOSED AGENDA 8:30 AM MORNING REFRESHMENTS (from the Sponsors) 9:00 AM Introductions and Business Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Ed Sayre North East Systems Associates (NESA) 9:30 AM "Making the IBIS Specification More Readable" Roy Leventhal, 3Com 10:00 AM "Model Extraction Based on Differential TDR" Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems 10:30 AM BREAK (Refreshments from Sponsors) 10:45 AM Roundtable - Accuracy Specification Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) 12:00 PM LUNCH (Provided to Attendees by the Sponsors) 1:00 PM Roundtable - Input Modeling Discussion Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) 2:00 PM Roundtable - IBIS Version 4.0 Features Discussion Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) 2:30 PM BREAK (Refreshments from Praegitzer Design) 2:45 PM "Proposed Improvements to the SPICE to IBIS Tool" Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics 3:15 PM Roundtable - Spice to IBIS Discussion Mike LaBonte, Cadence 4:00 PM Roundtable - Future of User Group Discussion Ed Sayre, NESA (Leader) 5:00 PM FINAL BUSINESS AND ADJORN **************************************************************************** DIRECTIONS TO MEETING The Marlboro Holiday Inn is located at the junction of Route 20 and I-495 (exit 24A off I-495 North or South) Located 4 miles from the Massachusetts Turnpike and One Mile from I-290. Thirty miles from Boston and Logan International Airport **************************************************************************** LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS Marlboro Holiday Inn 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508)481-3000 Boxboro Holiday Inn. One Adams Place Boxboro, MA Tel: (978) 263-8701 Fax: (978) 263-0518 Royal Plaza Hotel 181 Boston Post road West Marlborough, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 460-0700 Radisson Inn 75 Felton St. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 480-0015 Embassy Suites Hotels 123 Boston Post Rd. West Marlboro, MA (508) 485-5900 Amerscot House 61 West Acton Road Stow, MA 01775 email: doreen@amerscot.com, web site http://www.amerscot.com Tel: (508)897-0666, FAX (508)897-6914 Westford Regency Inn 219 Littleton Rd. (exit 32 off I-495) Westford, MA Tel: (978) 692-8200 +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. | | ------------------------------------- | | "High Performance Engineering & Design" | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | Kathy Breda e-mail: breda@nesa.com | | NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ | | 636 Great Road Tel +1.978.897-8787 | | Stow, MA 01775 USA Fax +1.978.897-5359 | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 4 13:15:14 1999 Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA08024 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by jasper.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13288 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910042014.NAA13288@jasper.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:14:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Reply-To: Syed Huq Subject: s2ibis2 error msg To: ibis-users@eda.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: V4D+QdcxoJduS9EHtir+mQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Hi, I am running the fix version of s2ibis2 on HSPICE and Solaris OS and got the following: s2ibis2.sun4.fix: Data begin marker analysis not found in output file rdx8.out. What does the above error msg mean ? Regards, Syed Cisco Systems, Inc From owner-ibis Mon Oct 4 13:59:53 1999 Received: from tower.ti.com (tower.ti.com [192.94.94.5]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA08134 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dlep8.itg.ti.com ([157.170.134.88]) by tower.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08856 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:59:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlep8.itg.ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dlep8.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24876 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlee71.itg.ti.com (dlee71.itg.ti.com [157.170.135.149]) by dlep8.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24853 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dlee71.itg.ti.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <42KFDA40>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:59:10 -0500 Message-ID: <87EA450621E2D211B6EE0000F8CD29570227FC70@dlee07.itg.ti.com> From: "Ammar, Ramzi" To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: LVDS differential output RampRise and RampFall Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:59:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF0EAB.4D796190" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0EAB.4D796190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am generating an IBIS model for an lvds device that has differential output. I was wondering if I should use the output as follows or I should remove the 100 ohm load and treat the output as a stand alone? The 100 ohm resistor is used as the test load with 10pf caps to GND at each output (that I did not show). Any suggetions. Regards, Ramzi Ammar RampRise --------------- I---- \ I \ ---------------|----------------------------------| <------ Pin under test I \ | | I \ / / I > \ \ 50 ohm | / / 100ohm / | / | | | /o--------------|--------------| GND |----/ floating RampFall --------------- I---- \ I \ ---------------|----------------------------------| <------ Pin under test I \ | | I \ / / I > \ \ 50 ohm | / / 100ohm / | / | | | /o--------------|--------------| VDD |----/ floating ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0EAB.4D796190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LVDS differential output RampRise and RampFall

I am generating an IBIS model for an = lvds device that has differential output. I was wondering if I should = use the output as follows or I should remove the 100 ohm load and treat = the output as a stand alone? The 100 ohm resistor is used as the test = load with 10pf caps to GND at each output (that I did not show).  = Any suggetions.

Regards,
Ramzi Ammar
 



RampRise
---------------

         &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;          =        
        I---- \ =
        I       \ = ---------------|----------------------------------|  <------ = Pin under test
        I         = \            = ;  = |            = ;            = ;         =      |
        I         &n= bsp; \           = /       =         =         /
        I         &n= bsp;  >         = \        =         =         \   50 ohm
        |          = /            = /  100ohm       =         /
        |        = /            = ;  |       =         =         |
        |      = /o--------------|--------------| =         GND
        |----/          =         floating



RampFall
---------------


        I---- = \
        I       \ = ---------------|----------------------------------|    = <------  Pin under test
        I         = \            = ;  = |            = ;            = ;         =      |
        I         &n= bsp; \           = /       =         =         /
        I         &n= bsp;  >         = \        =         =         \   50 ohm
        |          = /            = /  100ohm       =         /
        |        = /            = ;  |       =         =         |
        |      = /o--------------|--------------| =         VDD
        |----/          =         floating

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0EAB.4D796190-- From owner-ibis Mon Oct 4 14:45:57 1999 Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA08344 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 12637 invoked by alias); 4 Oct 1999 21:45:43 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-ibis-users@eda.org@fixme Received: (qmail 12599 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 1999 21:45:41 -0000 Received: from premiumf6.ptld.uswest.net (HELO vasthorizons.com) (207.225.90.6) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 21:45:41 -0000 Message-ID: <37F92003.2C35584B@vasthorizons.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 14:45:39 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow Reply-To: scott@vasthorizons.com Organization: SiQual X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Syed Huq , ibis Subject: Re: s2ibis2 error msg References: <199910042014.NAA13288@jasper.cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8096D499420BA091DAA28B32" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8096D499420BA091DAA28B32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Syed, It means that when spice ran it produced no output. This is usually due to some spice error. You should go to the rdx8.spi file and run it standalone in Hspice to see what the error or problem is. regards, scott -- Scott McMorrow Principal Engineer SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road Tualatin, OR 97062-3090 (503) 885-1231 http://www.siqual.com Syed Huq wrote: > Hi, > > I am running the fix version of s2ibis2 on HSPICE and Solaris OS and got > the following: > > s2ibis2.sun4.fix: Data begin marker analysis not found in output file rdx8.out. > > What does the above error msg mean ? > > Regards, > Syed > Cisco Systems, Inc --------------8096D499420BA091DAA28B32 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="scott.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Scott McMorrow Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="scott.vcf" begin:vcard n:McMorrow;Scott tel;work:503-708-4320 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.siqual.com org:SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering adr:;;18735 SW Boones Ferry Road;Tualatin ;OR;97062-3090;USA version:2.1 email;internet:scott@vasthorizons.com title:Principal Engineer note:asdfsdaf fn:Scott McMorrow end:vcard --------------8096D499420BA091DAA28B32-- From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 08:03:22 1999 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA14552 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id KAA23426 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:03:09 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from msgtel1.sps.mot.com (msgtel1.sps.mot.com [216.2.95.1]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA27889 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:03:06 -0500 (CDT)] Received: from email.sps.mot.com ([223.41.95.50]) by msgtel1.sps.mot.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5196; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:02:47 +0200 Sender: amirs@pobox2.mot.com Message-ID: <37FA1321.89C1B70D@email.sps.mot.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:02:57 +0200 From: "Amir Shavit (r56010)" Organization: Motorola Semiconductors Israel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org CC: "Udi Barel (r51365)" Subject: Vmeas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm cuurrently working on an ibis model. I'v encountered some problem with this parameter since it is different for rising and falling time. I don't know what it should be equal to, since there are 2 different values. Thanks for your answers Amir Shavit Motorola Semiconductors Israel From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 10:25:59 1999 Received: from osiris.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA15116 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by osiris.vlsi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA21597; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: osiris.vlsi.com: smtp set sender to using -f Received: from (tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.26]) by osiris.vlsi.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021581; Tue, 5 Oct 99 10:24:26 -0700 Received: from vlsi.com (witsend.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.133.12]) by tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id T1M93T8X; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:24:25 -0700 Sender: dsession@osiris.vlsi.com Message-ID: <37FA3449.D7862915@vlsi.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:24:25 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org CC: "Amir Shavit (r56010)" , "Udi Barel (r51365)" Subject: Re: Vmeas References: <37FA1321.89C1B70D@email.sps.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Amir Shavit (r56010)" wrote: > > Hi, > I'm cuurrently working on an ibis model. I'v encountered some problem > with this parameter since it is different for rising and falling time. I > don't know what it should be equal to, since there are 2 different > values. > Thanks for your answers > Amir Shavit > Motorola Semiconductors Israel Shalom Amir. I'm a bit puzzled about the "different rising and falling" cases. Are the defined timing points for the device you're working with actually specified differently for the two directions? The reason I ask is because it's very hard to have a setup time, for instance, which is different for rising and falling edges. Vmeas _should_ be the point at which the characterized ("data sheet") timing is defined. This is usually 1.5v for LVCMOS, but is sometimes 50% of supply (a better way), 40% of supply (PCI and AGP), or an external threshold (SSTL, HSTL, GTL, Rambus, etc.) -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 13:02:54 1999 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA15498 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fmsmsx19.fm.intel.com (fmsmsx19.fm.intel.com [132.233.222.210]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.7 1999/10/05 18:05:20 spurcell Exp $) with ESMTP id QAA27509; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:03:20 GMT Received: by fmsmsx19.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4K2ZP2JY>; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:02:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Kern, Frank" To: "'D. C. Sessions'" , ibis-users@eda.org Cc: "Amir Shavit (r56010)" , "Udi Barel (r51365)" Subject: RE: Vmeas Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:02:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" While on this topic... Previous generations of IBIS forced Vinh, Vinl and Vmeas parameters to be invariant across corner conditions. I build AGTL+ models where these parameters vary with respect to Vtt, therefore across corners [i.e. Vtt +/- 10%, Vmeas =(2/3)*Vtt, Vih = Vmeas + 200mv, Vil = Vmeas - 200mv]. To keep valid measurement points across the skew, I have to create separate model files for fast, slow and typical conditions. Does the new IBIS spec provide flexibility to define Vinh, Vinl, and Vmeas for each corner?? Frank Kern -----Original Message----- From: D. C. Sessions [mailto:dc.sessions@vlsi.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 10:24 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Amir Shavit (r56010); Udi Barel (r51365) Subject: Re: Vmeas "Amir Shavit (r56010)" wrote: > > Hi, > I'm cuurrently working on an ibis model. I'v encountered some problem > with this parameter since it is different for rising and falling time. I > don't know what it should be equal to, since there are 2 different > values. > Thanks for your answers > Amir Shavit > Motorola Semiconductors Israel Shalom Amir. I'm a bit puzzled about the "different rising and falling" cases. Are the defined timing points for the device you're working with actually specified differently for the two directions? The reason I ask is because it's very hard to have a setup time, for instance, which is different for rising and falling edges. Vmeas _should_ be the point at which the characterized ("data sheet") timing is defined. This is usually 1.5v for LVCMOS, but is sometimes 50% of supply (a better way), 40% of supply (PCI and AGP), or an external threshold (SSTL, HSTL, GTL, Rambus, etc.) -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 13:09:11 1999 Received: from osiris.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA15508 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by osiris.vlsi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA00575; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: osiris.vlsi.com: smtp set sender to using -f Received: from (tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.26]) by osiris.vlsi.com via smap (V2.0) id xma000540; Tue, 5 Oct 99 13:07:48 -0700 Received: from vlsi.com (witsend.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.133.12]) by tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id T1M934DM; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:07:47 -0700 Sender: dsession@osiris.vlsi.com Message-ID: <37FA5A93.FFFB4DA2@vlsi.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:07:47 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kern, Frank" CC: ibis-users@eda.org, "Amir Shavit (r56010)" , "Udi Barel (r51365)" Subject: Re: Vmeas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Kern, Frank" wrote: > > While on this topic... > > Previous generations of IBIS forced Vinh, Vinl and Vmeas parameters to be > invariant across corner conditions. I build AGTL+ models where these > parameters vary with respect to Vtt, therefore across corners [i.e. Vtt +/- > 10%, Vmeas =(2/3)*Vtt, Vih = Vmeas + 200mv, Vil = Vmeas - 200mv]. To keep > valid measurement points across the skew, I have to create separate model > files for fast, slow and typical conditions. Does the new IBIS spec provide > flexibility to define Vinh, Vinl, and Vmeas for each corner? [Model Spec] has made things a little bit better, but the real answer is that we're working on it. In particular, have a look at BIRD 62 and BIRD 63. > -----Original Message----- > From: D. C. Sessions [mailto:dc.sessions@vlsi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 10:24 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Cc: Amir Shavit (r56010); Udi Barel (r51365) > Subject: Re: Vmeas > > "Amir Shavit (r56010)" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm cuurrently working on an ibis model. I'v encountered some problem > > with this parameter since it is different for rising and falling time. I > > don't know what it should be equal to, since there are 2 different > > values. > > Thanks for your answers > > Amir Shavit > > Motorola Semiconductors Israel > > Shalom Amir. > > I'm a bit puzzled about the "different rising and falling" cases. > Are the defined timing points for the device you're working with > actually specified differently for the two directions? The reason > I ask is because it's very hard to have a setup time, for instance, > which is different for rising and falling edges. > > Vmeas _should_ be the point at which the characterized ("data sheet") > timing is defined. This is usually 1.5v for LVCMOS, but is sometimes > 50% of supply (a better way), 40% of supply (PCI and AGP), or an > external threshold (SSTL, HSTL, GTL, Rambus, etc.) > > -- > D. C. Sessions > dc.sessions@vlsi.com -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 23:22:26 1999 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA18824 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id BAA27264 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:22:13 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from msgtel1.sps.mot.com (msgtel1.sps.mot.com [216.2.95.1]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id BAA22636 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:22:08 -0500 (CDT)] Received: from email.sps.mot.com ([216.1.95.108]) by msgtel1.sps.mot.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4542; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:21:50 +0200 Message-ID: <37FAEA99.EA510C56@email.sps.mot.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:22:17 +0200 From: "Amir Shavit" Organization: Motorola Semiconductors Israel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "D. C. Sessions" CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: Vmeas References: <37FA3449.D7862915@vlsi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Thanks for your answer. The data sheet takes the worst case between rising and falling, or specifies falling (for strobes). The measurments were done from clock=2.0v (active gigh) to either signal=2.0v (rising) or signal = 0.8v (falling). These measurments are done so that the signal is active (wither high or low), and not just mid way through the device voltage. Thanks D. C. Sessions wrote: > > "Amir Shavit (r56010)" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm cuurrently working on an ibis model. I'v encountered some problem > > with this parameter since it is different for rising and falling time. I > > don't know what it should be equal to, since there are 2 different > > values. > > Thanks for your answers > > Amir Shavit > > Motorola Semiconductors Israel > > Shalom Amir. > > I'm a bit puzzled about the "different rising and falling" cases. > Are the defined timing points for the device you're working with > actually specified differently for the two directions? The reason > I ask is because it's very hard to have a setup time, for instance, > which is different for rising and falling edges. > > Vmeas _should_ be the point at which the characterized ("data sheet") > timing is defined. This is usually 1.5v for LVCMOS, but is sometimes > 50% of supply (a better way), 40% of supply (PCI and AGP), or an > external threshold (SSTL, HSTL, GTL, Rambus, etc.) > > -- > D. C. Sessions > dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 10:39:16 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA10140; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA17703; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id KAA27786; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <37FE2C15.E6D0E521@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:38:29 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org CC: derickson@iec.org Subject: IBIS & DesignCon2000 Early Information Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Members: I am sending some early DesignCon2000 information provided by the DesignCon2000 staff for your planning and possible early registration as noted below. The IBIS Open Forum again plans to hold a Summit meeting at DesignCon2000 and also participate with a booth. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics -------------------------------------------------------------------------- EIA IBIS Open Forum invites you to participate in DesignCon 2000 The EIA IBIS Open Forum is pleased to announce its associate sponsorship of DesignCon 2000, and will again host the IBIS Summit Monday January 31, 2000 8:30 also at the Convention Center. We invite you and your organization to participate in DesignCon 2000, the conference providing practical design solutions from practicing engineers, to be held January 31-February 3, 2000 at the Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara CA. The educational sessions of DesignCon support the IBIS model in design engineering, Input/Output for system-on-chip, transmission line analysis, high-speed printed circuit board design, and provide a multitude of other conference sessions presented by engineers and engineering professionals in intellectual property, high-performance system design, and wireless and broadband design. In addition to the sessions, DesignCon 2000 will feature 5 panel discussions, half-day TecForums presented by professionals and consultants, and a plenary panel on system and chip technology drivers for third generation wireless. The exhibit floor at DesignCon will feature more than 100 exhibitors delivering technology solutions to the world's design-engineering community. DesignCon 2000: One Event-Four Conferences-All the Design Solutions - System-on-Chip Design Conference - High-Performance System Design Conference - Wireless and Broadband Design Conference - Intellectual Property (IP) World Forum Register On-Line! Visit http://www.designcon.com for complete details, or access the DesignCon2000 link through the EIA IBIS Open Forum home page Upcoming Events link http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm or click to download the DesignCon 2000 Advance Registration Brochure in Adobe Acrobat format from: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/shows/designcon2000/ Select one of the discounts below and then follow one of the links to register! Individuals of an IBIS Member Company receive a 15% discount on any conference package. Non-members registering by October 31 provides you with a 10% discount on a three-day conference, entrance to the exhibits, and the conference proceedings on CD Rom. Any returning attendee can receive a 20% discount, and the conference proceedings on CD Rom. Featuring four conferences, DesignCon 2000 promises to be the leading educational event in the design engineering industry. If you would like to receive a copy of of the complete DesignCon catalog in November, e-mail our registration team at designcon@iec.org. From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 11:59:07 1999 Received: from mail.nesa.com (mail.nesa.com [204.240.29.34]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA10339; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porky (porky.nesa.com [204.240.29.45]) by mail.nesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16242; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:38:45 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991008124701.00adb410@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:47:01 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS Summit - 10/14/99, Final Agenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, If you are interested in attending the IBIS summit, and have not responded, please reply to this message. Attached you will find the Official Agenda for the meeting. ************************************************************ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G A G E N D A Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, October 14, 1999 Location: Marlboro Holiday Inn(NOT AT THE BOXBORO HOLIDAY INN THIS YEAR) 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 481-3000 Content: IBIS Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: Cadence Hyperlynx North East Systems Associates, Inc. Praegitzer Design PCB-East Conference: October 11-15, 1999 Royal Plaza Trade Center Marlborough, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. ************************************************************ IBIS SUMMIT AGENDA 8:30 AM MORNING REFRESHMENTS (from the Sponsors) 9:00 AM Introductions and Business Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Ed Sayre North East Systems Associates (NESA) 9:30 AM "Navigating IBIS at 3Com" Roy Leventhal, 3Com 10:00 AM "Model Extraction Based on Differential TDR" Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems 10:30 AM BREAK (Refreshments from Sponsors) 10:45 AM Roundtable - Accuracy Specification Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) 12:00 PM LUNCH (Provided to Attendees by the Sponsors) 1:00 PM Roundtable - Input Modeling Discussion Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) 2:00 PM Roundtable - IBIS Version 4.0 Features Discussion Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) 2:30 PM BREAK (Refreshments from Praegitzer Design) 2:45 PM "Proposed Improvements to the SPICE to IBIS Tool" Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics 3:15 PM Roundtable - Spice to IBIS Discussion Mike LaBonte, Cadence 4:00 PM Roundtable - Future of User Group Discussion Ed Sayre, NESA (Leader) 5:00 PM FINAL BUSINESS AND ADJOURN **************************************************************************** DIRECTIONS TO MEETING The Marlboro Holiday Inn is located at the junction of Route 20 and I-495 (exit 24A off I-495 North or South) Located 4 miles from the Massachusetts Turnpike and One Mile from I-290. Thirty miles from Boston and Logan International Airport **************************************************************************** LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS Marlboro Holiday Inn 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508)481-3000 Boxboro Holiday Inn. One Adams Place Boxboro, MA Tel: (978) 263-8701 Fax: (978) 263-0518 Royal Plaza Hotel 181 Boston Post road West Marlborough, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 460-0700 Radisson Inn 75 Felton St. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 480-0015 Embassy Suites Hotels 123 Boston Post Rd. West Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 485-5900 Amerscot House 61 West Acton Road Stow, MA 01775 email: doreen@amerscot.com, web site http://www.amerscot.com Tel: (978)897-0666, FAX (978)897-6914 Westford Regency Inn 219 Littleton Rd. (exit 32 off I-495) Westford, MA Tel: (978) 692-8200 +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. | | ------------------------------------- | | "High Performance Engineering & Design" | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | Kathy Breda e-mail: breda@nesa.com | | NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ | | 636 Great Road Tel +1.978.897-8787 | | Stow, MA 01775 USA Fax +1.978.897-5359 | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 17:03:34 1999 Received: from tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr (user90.s136.samsung.co.kr [203.241.136.90]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA11174 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr ([168.219.250.88]) by tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18000 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:59:06 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <37FE8200.87EF3010@tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:45:04 +0900 From: Jung-Gun Byun X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [ko] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: I'd like to join IBIS Users' Group Reflector. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am Daniel Byun of Samsung Electronics in Korea. I am responsible for signal integrity simulation of PC products. I'd like to join IBIS Users' Group Reflector. Thanks, Daniel From owner-ibis Mon Oct 11 00:03:05 1999 Received: from bsf.alcatel.fr (root@laposte.bsf.alcatel.fr [193.104.128.7]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA19369; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail (mail.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr [155.132.20.69]) by bsf.alcatel.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29771; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from messti by mail (SMI-8.6/ABS1.4) id JAA13714; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:41 +0200 Received: from grossebaf by messti (8.8.8+Sun/ABS1.5) id JAA19141; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr by grossebaf (8.8.8+Sun/ABS1.5) id JAA08145; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:42 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr Message-ID: <38018B8D.452AE561@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:38 +0200 From: Frank AZEMA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: fr, en-US, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS-users@eda.org, IBIS@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887" --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs, I thank everybody for your help on IBIS modelisation. Frank. -- Frank AZEMA ALCATEL BUSINESS SYSTEM Technical Direction 1 rt du Dr A. Schweitzer Tel:+33(0)3.88.67.77.00 67000 ILLKIRCH Cedex - France Fax:+33(0)3.88.67.70.83 Franck.Azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs,

I thank everybody for your help on IBIS modelisation.

Frank.
  

-- 
Frank AZEMA                      ALCATEL BUSINESS SYSTEM
Technical Direction             1 rt du Dr A. Schweitzer
Tel:+33(0)3.88.67.77.00    67000 ILLKIRCH Cedex - France
Fax:+33(0)3.88.67.70.83  Franck.Azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr
  --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887-- From owner-ibis Tue Oct 19 14:49:54 1999 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA09626 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id OAA22352 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM(158.140.103.36) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma940369772.022336; Tue, 19 Oct 99 14:49:32 -0700 Received: from cadence.com (d158140105226 [158.140.105.226]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29187 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380CE763.F8A4587F@cadence.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:49:23 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: SpiTran - new s2ibis2 GUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IBIS "Free Tools" web page has a link to the latest version of SpiTran, a graphical user interface for s2ibis2 that is written in Java. Cadence is contributing SpiTran to the IBIS community, so the public domain source code is included. SpiTran 1.0 is designed to assist with the translation of SPICE buffers to IBIS. It allows graphical editing of the s2ibis2 control file, produces a properly connected SPICE wrapper circuit, and then runs s2ibis2. You can go to the IBIS Free Tools web page at: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/tools.htm or go directly to the SpiTran download page at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/s2ibis/spitran The download includes Java components, documentation, examples, and source code. You must install Java 1.2 and s2ibis2 to run it. Regards, Mike LaBonte Cadence Design Systems From owner-ibis Wed Oct 20 09:48:57 1999 Received: from hadar.amcc.com (hadar.amcc.com [192.195.69.168]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA15278 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP ([192.195.69.30]) by hadar.amcc.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA482C for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:47:24 -0700 Received: from cimaron.com ([206.113.37.201]) by 192.195.69.30 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:35:51 0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <380DF27D.416E0A1F@cimaron.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:49:01 -0400 From: "Tony Palmieri" Organization: AMCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS MOdel Question Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------776386D9745B191BD431C734" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------776386D9745B191BD431C734 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is properly referenced. Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com Thanks for your help, Tony Palmieri AMCC Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager --------------776386D9745B191BD431C734 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="apalmieri.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Tony Palmieri Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="apalmieri.vcf" begin:vcard n:Palmieri;Anthony tel;fax:978-623-0024 tel;work:978-623-0009 x3063 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:AMCC version:2.1 email;internet:apalmieri@amcc.com title:Applications Manager adr;quoted-printable:;;200 Brickstone Square=0D=0A;Andover;Massachusetts;01810; end:vcard --------------776386D9745B191BD431C734-- From owner-ibis Wed Oct 20 10:58:23 1999 Received: from mailext12.compaq.com (mailext12.compaq.com [207.18.199.188]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA15543 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailint12.im.hou.compaq.com (mailint12.compaq.com [207.18.199.190]) by mailext12.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285BB5785C for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:58:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailint12.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 12345) id 74F954FB2F; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exchou-gh03.cca.cpqcorp.net (exchou-gh03.cca.cpqcorp.net [16.110.248.203]) by mailint12.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57AD54C902 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: by exchou-gh03bk.im.hou.compaq.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:58:02 -0500 Message-ID: <427351B4DEABD111A99400805F19E9BB02D62D15@EXCHOU-PROD0901> From: "Beal, Weston" To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS MOdel Question Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:57:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tony, I commend you for at least checking your file with ibischk. I've received IBIS files from part vendors and the file doesn't even pass the syntax check when I get it. The first thing I look for in a new IBIS file is the timing reference load (Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref) on all drivers. Ibischk3 will issue warnings if these don't exist. If your customer is doing simulation for timing they will need this information. The second test I run is to look at the waveforms. There are various tools that will display your curves. In general, all the I-V curves should pass through 0.0A, 0.0V or very close thereunto. Pullup and Pulldown curves should be 0.0A through the normal operating voltage range. Next, I would run an actual simulation with each of the drivers in the file. It would be very impressive to your customer if you ran a simulation of your models in the same simulator that they use. If you did all that I would like to personally shake your hand and laud you name across the internet! Regards, Weston Beal -----Original Message----- From: Tony Palmieri [mailto:apalmieri@cimaron.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 October, 1999 11:49 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS MOdel Question << File: Card for Tony Palmieri >> Hello, I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is properly referenced. Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com Thanks for your help, Tony Palmieri AMCC Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager From owner-ibis Wed Oct 20 11:20:57 1999 Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA15623 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.41.35]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA4646; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:23:48 -0700 Sender: "Kim Helliwell" Message-ID: <380E07E6.E46DFF02@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:20:22 -0700 From: Kim Helliwell Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Palmieri CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS MOdel Question References: <380DF27D.416E0A1F@cimaron.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Make sure that: 1. The curves are continuous 2. The ramps (if any) cover the whole switching range 3. All pins are assigned to models These are the three worst problems I've run into trying to use IBIS models supplied by well-known parts vendors. If you have access to one of the commercially available signal integrity tools, try actually using the model with it. Your customers will thank you if you actually make your model work in the simulators they are going to use! Kim Helliwell Tony Palmieri wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model > that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I > ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model > to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. > > Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is > correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is > properly referenced. > > Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com > > Thanks for your help, > > Tony Palmieri > > AMCC > Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Applications Manager > AMCC > > Applications Manager > AMCC > 200 Brickstone Square ;Andover;Massachusetts;01810; Fax: 978-623-0024 > Work: 978-623-0009 x3063 > Additional Information: > Last Name Palmieri > First Name Anthony > Version 2.1 -- Kim Helliwell Senior CAE Engineer Acuson Corporation Phone: 650 694 5030 FAX: 650 943 7260 From owner-ibis Wed Oct 20 12:31:45 1999 Received: from mailext02.compaq.com (mailext02.compaq.com [207.18.199.33]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA16015 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com (mailint02.compaq.com [207.18.199.35]) by mailext02.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5F99AA01 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:31:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 12345) id 23D06BC4DE; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:31:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net (exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net [16.103.129.52]) by mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE6BB2A44 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:31:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: by exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:31:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Haller, Robert" To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: FW: IBIS MOdel Question Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:31:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Great suggestions Weston. I would like to add after performing syntax and various other sanity checks I suggest you perform correlation between simulations and actual devices and document those results (for you and your customer). The IBIS accuracy spec (available on the IBIS web site http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm) gives some suggestions for loads and measurement techniques. I also commend you for due diligence in creating useful models for your semiconductor customers. regards, bob Robert J. Haller Compaq Computer Corporation AlphaServer Product Development Phone: (978) 493-4112 Fax: (978) 493-0941 robert.haller@compaq.com -----Original Message----- From: Beal, Weston Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:58 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS MOdel Question Tony, I commend you for at least checking your file with ibischk. I've received IBIS files from part vendors and the file doesn't even pass the syntax check when I get it. The first thing I look for in a new IBIS file is the timing reference load (Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref) on all drivers. Ibischk3 will issue warnings if these don't exist. If your customer is doing simulation for timing they will need this information. The second test I run is to look at the waveforms. There are various tools that will display your curves. In general, all the I-V curves should pass through 0.0A, 0.0V or very close thereunto. Pullup and Pulldown curves should be 0.0A through the normal operating voltage range. Next, I would run an actual simulation with each of the drivers in the file. It would be very impressive to your customer if you ran a simulation of your models in the same simulator that they use. If you did all that I would like to personally shake your hand and laud you name across the internet! Regards, Weston Beal -----Original Message----- From: Tony Palmieri [mailto:apalmieri@cimaron.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 October, 1999 11:49 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS MOdel Question << File: Card for Tony Palmieri >> Hello, I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is properly referenced. Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com Thanks for your help, Tony Palmieri AMCC Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager From owner-ibis Thu Oct 21 07:37:57 1999 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA21224 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id HAA23073 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM(158.140.103.36) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma940516650.023021; Thu, 21 Oct 99 07:37:30 -0700 Received: from cadence.com (d15814010539 [158.140.105.39]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07556 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380F251C.F3EF88BF@cadence.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:37:16 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Use of minimum and maximum Vcc reference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have seen Pullup curves in IBIS files where current falls to zero at 0V for typical, 0.5V for minimum, and at -0.5V (approximately) in the maximum column. My guess is that these measurements are all relative to the *typical* value of Vcc. The IBIS spec and the cookbook have adequate explanation of the fact that voltages for [Pullup] and [POWER Clamp] are "relative to Vcc". It is implicit that the minimum current column in a [Pullup] should be relative to the minimum Vcc, and likewise for maximum. For example, if one has "[Voltage Range] 5.0V 4.5V 5.5V", and the Pullup curve has 0 current at 0V for typical, minimum, and maximum, then one would interpret this to mean that current falls to zero at 5.0V, 4.5V, and 5.5V for typical, minimum and maximum case, respectively. Putting it another way, "relative to Vcc" means "relative to typical Vcc for the typical current column, relative to minimum Vcc for the minimum current column", etc. For "normal" devices I would expect current to fall to zero in all 3 current columns at 0V, or at least nearly in the same row. First of all, is my assumption correct? Either way, the correct interpretation should be explicitly stated in the IBIS spec. Is it in there somewhere? Mike From owner-ibis Thu Oct 21 08:27:05 1999 Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA21427 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by jasper.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA14946; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910211526.IAA14946@jasper.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:26:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Reply-To: Syed Huq Subject: Re: Use of minimum and maximum Vcc reference To: ibis-users@eda.org, mikelabonte@cadence.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: gqujxaq7syHkO7x3lfNLPg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Mike, Your assumptions are correct. This Vcc relative issues for each Typ, Min and Max is handled well by s2ibis2(SPICE-to-IBIS)translator, BUT if the model developer is using a different tool or generating model from measurement, this Vcc relative issues per-Vcc becomes critical. I don't think this is clearly spelled out in the IBIS docs. Regards, Syed Cisco Systems, Inc > X-SMAP-Received-From: outside > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:37:16 -0400 > From: Mike LaBonte > X-Accept-Language: en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Use of minimum and maximum Vcc reference > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > We have seen Pullup curves in IBIS files where current falls to zero at 0V for typical, > 0.5V for minimum, and at -0.5V (approximately) in the maximum column. My guess is that > these measurements are all relative to the *typical* value of Vcc. > > The IBIS spec and the cookbook have adequate explanation of the fact that voltages > for [Pullup] and [POWER Clamp] are "relative to Vcc". It is implicit that the minimum > current column in a [Pullup] should be relative to the minimum Vcc, and likewise for > maximum. For example, if one has "[Voltage Range] 5.0V 4.5V 5.5V", and the Pullup > curve has 0 current at 0V for typical, minimum, and maximum, then one would interpret > this to mean that current falls to zero at 5.0V, 4.5V, and 5.5V for typical, minimum > and maximum case, respectively. Putting it another way, "relative to Vcc" means > "relative to typical Vcc for the typical current column, relative to minimum Vcc > for the minimum current column", etc. For "normal" devices I would expect current > to fall to zero in all 3 current columns at 0V, or at least nearly in the same row. > > First of all, is my assumption correct? Either way, the correct interpretation should > be explicitly stated in the IBIS spec. Is it in there somewhere? > > Mike From owner-ibis Thu Oct 21 08:35:26 1999 Received: from shrimp.baynetworks.com (ns4.BayNetworks.COM [192.32.253.7]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA21444 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by shrimp.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28497; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21997; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com (dhcp149-126 [192.32.149.126]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id LAA18507; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:34:03 -0400 for Reply-To: From: "Ross Pryor" To: "'Mike LaBonte'" , Subject: RE: Use of minimum and maximum Vcc reference Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:38:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bf1bda$5f1e3960$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <380F251C.F3EF88BF@cadence.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Hi Mike, My assumption is the same as yours - minimum current is relative to minimum VCC and maximum current is relative to maximum VCC. Both SpecctraQuest and XTK operate under this assumption. I too have seen many models from semiconductor suppliers where all pullup and power clamp curves were adjusted relative to VCC typical, and consequently give incorrect VOH values for min and max cases. I think this could be more explicitly covered in the spec so that there is no possibility of misinterpretation. Ross -------------- Ross Pryor Nortel Networks Billerica, MA (978) 288-3811 ESN 248-3811 rpryor@nortelnetworks.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike LaBonte [mailto:mikelabonte@cadence.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:37 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Use of minimum and maximum Vcc reference We have seen Pullup curves in IBIS files where current falls to zero at 0V for typical, 0.5V for minimum, and at -0.5V (approximately) in the maximum column. My guess is that these measurements are all relative to the *typical* value of Vcc. The IBIS spec and the cookbook have adequate explanation of the fact that voltages for [Pullup] and [POWER Clamp] are "relative to Vcc". It is implicit that the minimum current column in a [Pullup] should be relative to the minimum Vcc, and likewise for maximum. For example, if one has "[Voltage Range] 5.0V 4.5V 5.5V", and the Pullup curve has 0 current at 0V for typical, minimum, and maximum, then one would interpret this to mean that current falls to zero at 5.0V, 4.5V, and 5.5V for typical, minimum and maximum case, respectively. Putting it another way, "relative to Vcc" means "relative to typical Vcc for the typical current column, relative to minimum Vcc for the minimum current column", etc. For "normal" devices I would expect current to fall to zero in all 3 current columns at 0V, or at least nearly in the same row. First of all, is my assumption correct? Either way, the correct interpretation should be explicitly stated in the IBIS spec. Is it in there somewhere? Mike From owner-ibis Fri Oct 22 11:12:58 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA29249 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id LAA28443; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kappa2.wv.mentorg.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id LAA15781; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:10:59 -0700 Message-ID: <01BF1C7E.1E5E0B40.tom_dagostino@mentorg.com> From: tomda To: "'Kim Helliwell'" , Tony Palmieri Cc: "ibis-users@eda.org" Subject: RE: IBIS MOdel Question Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:10:57 -0700 Organization: Mentor Graphics X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 82 TEXT There is one sanity check that I would like to see done on all models produced from SPICE data. I have seen too many models that are constructed correctly fail this check. Check to make sure the IV characteristics derived from SPICE match the IV characteristics of real parts. The easiest was to do this is to put one of the buffers from each strength into both its high and low states. Us a DC current meter and measure the output current to ground for the high state and to Vcc for the low state. Then check to see if the measured current falls between the min and max values at the corresponding points on the IV curves. Tom Dagostino -----Original Message----- From: Kim Helliwell [SMTP:khelliwe@acuson.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 11:20 AM To: Tony Palmieri Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS MOdel Question Make sure that: 1. The curves are continuous 2. The ramps (if any) cover the whole switching range 3. All pins are assigned to models These are the three worst problems I've run into trying to use IBIS models supplied by well-known parts vendors. If you have access to one of the commercially available signal integrity tools, try actually using the model with it. Your customers will thank you if you actually make your model work in the simulators they are going to use! Kim Helliwell Tony Palmieri wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model > that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I > ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model > to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. > > Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is > correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is > properly referenced. > > Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com > > Thanks for your help, > > Tony Palmieri > > AMCC > Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > Applications Manager > AMCC > > Applications Manager > AMCC > 200 Brickstone Square ;Andover;Massachusetts;01810; Fax: 978-623-0024 > Work: 978-623-0009 x3063 > Additional Information: > Last Name Palmieri > First Name Anthony > Version 2.1 -- Kim Helliwell Senior CAE Engineer Acuson Corporation Phone: 650 694 5030 FAX: 650 943 7260 From owner-ibis Fri Oct 22 13:53:16 1999 Received: from osiris.vlsi.com ([63.194.140.25]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA29896 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by osiris.vlsi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA26162 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:52:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: osiris.vlsi.com: smtp set sender to using -f Received: from (tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.26]) by osiris via smap (V2.0) id xma026157; Fri, 22 Oct 99 13:52:32 -0700 Received: from vlsi.com (witsend.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.133.12]) by tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id T1M9306V; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:52:31 -0700 Sender: dsession@osiris.vlsi.com Message-ID: <3810CE90.BA0E5B75@vlsi.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:52:32 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ibis-users@eda.org" Subject: Re: IBIS MOdel Question References: <01BF1C7E.1E5E0B40.tom_dagostino@mentorg.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tomda wrote: > > There is one sanity check that I would like to see done on all models > produced from SPICE data. I have seen too many models that are constructed > correctly fail this check. > > Check to make sure the IV characteristics derived from SPICE match the IV > characteristics of real parts. The easiest was to do this is to put one of > the buffers from each strength into both its high and low states. Us a DC > current meter and measure the output current to ground for the high state > and to Vcc for the low state. Then check to see if the measured current > falls between the min and max values at the corresponding points on the IV > curves. Maybe I'm just a hard case, but why should this be a one-time exercise? IBIS is perfectly suited to the job of specifying I/O characteristics to manufacturing test. They have to do drive-strength tests anyway to make sure that there aren't any open output device legs, so instead of silly stuff like "8.0 mA at 330 mV" or whatever just give them the IBIS model and let them pick the best test points. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim Helliwell [SMTP:khelliwe@acuson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 11:20 AM > To: Tony Palmieri > Cc: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Re: IBIS MOdel Question > > Make sure that: > > 1. The curves are continuous > 2. The ramps (if any) cover the whole switching range > 3. All pins are assigned to models > > These are the three worst problems I've run into trying > to use IBIS models supplied by well-known parts vendors. > > If you have access to one of the commercially available > signal integrity tools, try actually using the model > with it. Your customers will thank you if you actually > make your model work in the simulators they are going > to use! > > Kim Helliwell > > Tony Palmieri wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have a question about an IBIS model. I have created a chip level model > > that is composed numerous IBIS models. After I completed the model I > > ran the ibischk program and it passed. I will be providing this model > > to our customers, but want to make sure that it is filly tested. > > > > Are there any other tests that I should run to insure that it is > > correct. I have reviewed the pin assignments, and that everything is > > properly referenced. > > > > Please reply to apalmieri@amcc.com > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Tony Palmieri > > > > AMCC > > Applications, IC Test and Verification Manager > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > Applications Manager > > AMCC > > > > Applications Manager > > > AMCC > > 200 Brickstone Square ;Andover;Massachusetts;01810; Fax: 978-623-0024 > > Work: 978-623-0009 > x3063 > > Additional Information: > > Last Name Palmieri > > First Name Anthony > > Version 2.1 > > -- > Kim Helliwell > Senior CAE Engineer > Acuson Corporation > Phone: 650 694 5030 FAX: 650 943 7260 -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 11:39:11 1999 Received: from mailgw1.netvision.net.il (mailgw1.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.14]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA19867 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a (RAS2-p98.hrz.netvision.net.il [62.0.153.226]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA22475 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:38:43 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <001501bf1fe0$b3f0c7a0$e299003e@a> From: "eh" To: Subject: Technology Models vs. full IBIS models Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:33:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF1FF1.5A464FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.37 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.37 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF1FF1.5A464FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear friends, We are evaluating a tool regarding signal integrity. Our design is composed of modern devices ( DSP,DRAM,SRAM,FLASH,FCT etc). Since we don't have the IBIS model for most of the parts, the supplier = suggested that I use technology models. I have a DSP, so I assigned it = as FCT, for it was the closest choise. The PCB crosstalk simulation showed problems we NEVER faced with five = practical PCBs. I assume that I have to get/order/develop IBIS models for all the parts, = and not=20 use "technology models". Is that true ? Has anyone went through these ? Has anyone a benchmark, comparing the major tools , offered this field = of signal integrity (crosstalk...). Regards, Simi Eshkol Sn Elec Eng. VideoCom , Israel =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF1FF1.5A464FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear friends,
 
We are evaluating a tool regarding = signal=20 integrity.
Our design is composed of modern = devices (=20 DSP,DRAM,SRAM,FLASH,FCT etc).
Since we don't have the IBIS model = for most of=20 the parts, the supplier suggested that I use technology = models.   I=20 have a DSP, so I assigned it as FCT, for it was the closest = choise.
The PCB crosstalk simulation showed = problems we=20 NEVER faced with five practical PCBs.
I assume that I have to = get/order/develop IBIS=20 models for all the parts, and not 
use "technology = models".
Is that true=20 ?
Has anyone went through these = ?
Has anyone a benchmark, comparing = the major=20 tools , offered this field of signal integrity = (crosstalk...).
 
Regards,
Simi Eshkol
Sn Elec Eng.
VideoCom , Israel
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF1FF1.5A464FC0-- From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 11:54:29 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA19896 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id LAA02539; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id LAA18125; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3815F8AF.ACA0F119@mentor.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:53:35 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eh CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: Technology Models vs. full IBIS models References: <001501bf1fe0$b3f0c7a0$e299003e@a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: In my opinion your best approach is to develop/obtain the actual IBIS models. Real buffers may differ significantly from generic technology model buffers. In some cases the differences occur in parts or buffers from the same family of a manufacturer. Regarding benchmarking major tools, this is a topic for the Signal Integrity Reflector. The IBIS reflector is not used for Vendor Tool comparisons or business issues by EIA rules and by the fact that the EIA IBIS Open Forum is funded by many vendors. Best Regards, Bob Ross Mentor Graphics > eh wrote: > > Dear friends, > > We are evaluating a tool regarding signal integrity. > Our design is composed of modern devices ( DSP,DRAM,SRAM,FLASH,FCT etc). > Since we don't have the IBIS model for most of the parts, the supplier > suggested that I use technology models. I have a DSP, so I assigned it as > FCT, for it was the closest choise. > The PCB crosstalk simulation showed problems we NEVER faced with five > practical PCBs. > I assume that I have to get/order/develop IBIS models for all the parts, and > not > use "technology models". > Is that true ? > Has anyone went through these ? > Has anyone a benchmark, comparing the major tools , offered this field of > signal integrity (crosstalk...). > > Regards, > Simi Eshkol > Sn Elec Eng. > VideoCom , Israel > > > > From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 13:12:54 1999 Received: from InterJet.apsimtech.com (appliedsim-sdsl784k-gw.mv.best.net [206.184.220.92]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA20064 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by InterJet.apsimtech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10829; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apsim3.apsimtech.com(192.168.1.103), claiming to be "apsim3" via SMTP by InterJet.apsimtech.com, id smtpd010826; Tue Oct 26 19:58:58 1999 Sender: fred@apsimtech.com Message-ID: <3816072F.7A5@apsimtech.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:55:27 -0700 From: Fred Balistreri Organization: Apsim X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Ross CC: eh , ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: Technology Models vs. full IBIS models References: <001501bf1fe0$b3f0c7a0$e299003e@a> <3815F8AF.ACA0F119@mentor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Ross wrote: > > Hello: > > In my opinion your best approach is to develop/obtain the actual > IBIS models. Real buffers may differ significantly from generic > technology model buffers. In some cases the differences occur > in parts or buffers from the same family of a manufacturer. > > Regarding benchmarking major tools, this is a topic for the > Signal Integrity Reflector. The IBIS reflector is not used > for Vendor Tool comparisons or business issues by EIA rules > and by the fact that the EIA IBIS Open Forum is funded by > many vendors. > > Best Regards, > Bob Ross > Mentor Graphics > > > eh wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > We are evaluating a tool regarding signal integrity. > > Our design is composed of modern devices ( DSP,DRAM,SRAM,FLASH,FCT etc). > > Since we don't have the IBIS model for most of the parts, the supplier > > suggested that I use technology models. I have a DSP, so I assigned it as > > FCT, for it was the closest choise. > > The PCB crosstalk simulation showed problems we NEVER faced with five > > practical PCBs. > > I assume that I have to get/order/develop IBIS models for all the parts, and > > not > > use "technology models". > > Is that true ? > > Has anyone went through these ? > > Has anyone a benchmark, comparing the major tools , offered this field of > > signal integrity (crosstalk...). > > > > Regards, > > Simi Eshkol > > Sn Elec Eng. > > VideoCom , Israel > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what is meant by the technology models. I presume this means the SPICE transistor level models based on the process. If that is the case then obtaining the IBIS models of the same may not help since IBIS models are mostly made from the SPICE models anyway. However obtaining the correct models for the part number from the vendor may get you more realistic results, this is independent of whether the model is in SPICE or IBIS format. Best Regards, -- Fred Balistreri fred@apsimtech.com http://www.apsimtech.com