DATE: 4/28/98
SUBJECT: 4/24/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP (Martin Freedman)
Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram
Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault,
Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss,
Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*
Cypress (Bruce Wenniger)
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
High Design Technology Razvan Ene
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora*
Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson,
Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan
Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley
Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau,
Nevin Orhanovic
Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen*, Tam Cao
Motorola (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
Ikchang Song
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
(NESA)
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*,
Peter Forstner
Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
Jean Lefebvre
Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh,
Gary Mandel
VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions
Zuken-Redac (John Berrie)
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin
Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman,
Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
Daniel Peron
ALS Design Yves Mouquet
Ansoft Eric Bogatin
Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick
Avanti Nik Bannov
CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson,
Rudi Zurbroken
Compaq Shariq Rahma
Crucial Technology Rathna Reddy*
EIA Patti Rusher*
EMC Fawn Engelmann
ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot
European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec
Intitiative (ECSI)
Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme
H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said
Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw
Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen
Scottish Electronics Robert Easson
Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
Seagate Vanessa Howard
SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre
Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger,
Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
Gil Russell
Symmetry Andy Hughes
Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi
Ultratest International Chris O'Connor
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
May 15, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167409 2939394
June 5, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167410 9468535
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Rathna Reddy from Crucial Technology (a spinoff of Micron Technology) is
involved in memory board design using memory ICs and needs to use IBIS models
to support EDA tools.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher reported that she sent Bob Ross a report indicating that there
were no new members. Bob reported that most of the members have paid and
some special case situations will be handled off line. For example, one
company was double billed. Also, some companies do not show having paid for
the ibischk3 development project, and these issues will be traced offline.
Bob indicated that in spite of some billing confusion and glitches, he is
pleased with the payment progress to date.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The AR's will be discussed at the meeting. No corrections were noted on
the previous two sets of meeting Minutes.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has
time.
Syed Huq reported that he continues to do roster updates and reports them
to Bob as they occur to get the 1998 entries correctly reflected.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross noted that IBIS was mentioned briefly in "Printed-Circuit Board
Changes Enable New Design Possibilities" by Cheryl Ajluni in the April 6,
1998 issue of Electronic Design, pp. 83-92.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora found that Aptos Semiconductor is
supplying IBIS models at
http://www.aptos.com/ibismain.htm
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross on meeting dates
Bob Ross on ibischk3 and ebdchk3 distribution
Bob Ross on 3-state ECL
Bob Ross on Electrical Board Description issues.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the
status. This may not be resolved until the next IEC meeting in September.
- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit
(IMIC) - Bob Ross noted the revised notation and the fact the the March 31,
1998 copy designated Version 1.1 is available and downloadable in a .pdf
format from the site below:
http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/tsc/SSC/IOPG.htm
Comment deadline on this version closes on June 10, 1998. Bob noted that
a few pages could not be printed because of some font problems.
- IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean-Claude Perrin, Chair, reported
that the New Work Item Proposal activity will be delayed by about four
months due to workload conflicts and administrative delays. He may have a
document to show at the IEC meeting, but it will not be the formal
proposal.
- JC-16B - Bob Ross wanted to clarify the dates of the IBIS Summit Meeting
planned for December, 1998. Patti Rusher will check if it is planned for
Wednesday, December 9, 1998. She also indicated that the JEDEC committee
was very pleased to have a co-located meeting with people from JC-16B.
The meeting will be mutually beneficial for the groups since they are
interested in the same issues from different perspectives.
MEETING DATES
Bob Ross inserted this new discussion topic here. Bob indicated that the
remaining meetings through the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation
Conference and the other IBIS Summit meetings are listed below along with the
suggested emphasis:
Friday, May 15, 1998 - Teleconference
Friday, June 5, 1998 - Teleconference
Thursday, June 18, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (Design Automation
Conference (DAC))
Election of EIA IBIS Open Forum Officers
Possible Final Technical Discussions regarding Open BIRDs
Possible Ratification of Version 3.1
Thursday, October 15, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (PCB Conference East and
IBIS Users Group)
Educational Issues
Accuracy and Validation Issues
Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (JEDEC JC-16B)
JC-16B Design/EDA Tool Simulation/Modeling Issues for configurations of
mutual interest such as Series Stub Terminated Logic (STTL), etc.
Monday, February 1, 1999 - IBIS Summit Meeting (DesignCon)
Regarding the DAC IBIS meeting, Stephen Peters indicated that he would like
to have IBIS Version 3.1 finalized, if possible. Bob would also like this
as a goal and will work hard to resolve and close out the open BIRDs. Patti
Rusher has reserved the room from 9 AM to 5 PM. She needs to place the
banquet order for food and plans just the morning refreshments and lunch.
The meeting might not need to take all day.
Greg Edlund indicated that having an IBIS Summit Meeting associated with the
PCB Conference East had been discussed the previous day at the IBIS Users
meeting on April 23, 1998. There was considerable interested along with
the interest in the educational aspects.
IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES
Since scheduling and meetings was being discussed, Bob Ross moved this topic
here to continue with Greg Edlunds' report on the April 23, 1998 meeting.
Greg already reported that the interest was positive on having an IBIS Summit
meeting at the time of the PCB Conference East.
Greg summarized Paul Galloway's report and gave this report. Due to job
responsibility changes, Paul will have to pull away from chairing the Sub-
committee on Software and Usability. Paul reported that he and Ed Sayre
are working on a possible two day IBIS training course.
Patti Rusher indicated that if it is to be associated with the PCB Conference
East, then the proposal needs to be submitted soon to the show sponsors -
Miller Freeman. The PCB magazine and Miller Freeman co-own this conference.
If the course were done through the conference, then the price would probably
be set and the profits would go the the conference organizers. The deadline
has already past for proposed seminars. Bob Ross indicated that the course
could also be set up separately. Perhaps it could follow the IBIS Summit
meeting as a dry run. It could be a one-half day session after the IBIS
Summit Meeting (although the feeling was that this would conflict with other
IBIS Summit business). It could also be done on a separate day.
Greg also stated that Paul reported on other items - the Cadence s2ibis2
windows manager was released. The IBIS Users Group Web Page is being done by
a group in Switzerland and is up, but information has not been put in it
yet.
Greg reported that he talked about the accuracy and validation activities.
He has already sent minutes out to the ibis-user reflector.
The meeting was held at Trilogic. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday,
May 21, 1998.
IBIS LOGO CHANGE
Bob Ross summarized the comments to date on the 5 logos that were presented.
Most favored #3, and some favored or listed #1 and #5 as the second choice.
No one favored #2 or #4. Based on this and the comments, the committee
agreed to pursue using #3. The main comment is to try make the "IBIS"
larger. Arpad Muranyi did not see the association of the logo to the
of the committee. Bob commented that most logos contain only the company
names. We could put "I/O Interface Specification underneath the logo in
some instances to define "IBIS". The EIA logo has its name, Electronic
Industries Alliance, under its logo on the Home page.
Patti Rusher needs to know soon what the logo will be for preparation of the
EIA booth at the Design Automation Conference. Bob suggested that we are
close enough to using #3 on the EIA IBIS Home page. However, the suggested
variations of the logo including a larger IBIS text could still be pursued
on the tttp://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.html page. We will formally decide
on the logo at the May 15, 1998 meeting, if not sooner.
Bob raised the issue of who is authorized to use the logo in response to
a question by Greg Edlund on whether the new logo is downloadable from
a .gif file. Syed Huq felt that the EIA IBIS Open Forum should control the
usage of the logo since it contains the EIA logo and we do not want the IBIS
logo to imply that unvalidated IBIS models comply with the IBIS standard.
Patti thought that EIA IBIS Open Forum Members can use the logo (as a benefit
for membership) to indicate that they are members of the EIA IBIS Open
Forum.
Bob stated that the previous "logo" evolved from a placard that was intended
to be used at trade shows to promote IBIS acceptance. This placard was given
to anyone who might be supporting the IBIS effort. So Bob, while aware of
some implications, never really tried to control its usage.
Since this is going to be the official logo, it can only be used by EIA IBIS
Open Forum Member Companies to indicate the they are members. It cannot be
used to indicate IBIS model compliance. Any other usage such as by the IBIS
East Users Group) must officially be approved by the IBIS Open Forum (which
should not be a problem).
EDITING COMMITTEE
Bob Ross indicated that he plans to upload an UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1c.ibs
document on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip. It will contain the resolved
BIRD47 change.
The BNF AR remains.
AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).
BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
Bob Ross indicated no progress.
AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted
in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes.
IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.15) PROGRESS
Bob Ross indicated that he will still act on compressing the existing
executables per last meeting - .Z for unix applications, .zip for DOS Windows
applications. Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek are still controlling the
master of the Version 2.116 release
BUG27 - Parser Crashes when Calling [Package Model]
Matthew Flora found another bug which causes a crash. This occurs since
some code checks for line lengths of 79 characters and other code checks for
80 characters. Matthew located the source of the problem.
Bob classified this as Severe, High, Open, and intends that this fix be
rolled into ibischk2.1.16.
VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
Bob Ross stated that he is checking in detail the Beta Version 3.0.1 of
ibischk3 and ebdchk3. So far it appears very good. Some of the prior
bugs have been fixed in this version, but Bob still needs to confirm that
the BUGs have been fixed in the embedded ibischk2+ code. Bob noted that
the .make files has a DEFINE -DIBIS_PRINT statement which causes all the
variables to be dumped. The code can be compiled without this statement
for a smaller listing of just the Errors and Warnings.
Bob raised the issue that even though the project is funded by 12 companies,
we could release the executables. Matthew Flora indicated that this was
just preliminary code, so it is possible to have some undetected mistakes.
Matthew also indicated that it would be valuable to have more people using
to executables to help test it. Bob cited that historically the development
versions of the ibis_chk and ibischk2 executables were made available to
support testing and encourage IBIS model development. Stephen Peters and
others generally agreed that we should release the executables. Bob stated
that we could release just the executables that were convenient such as the
DOS Windows versions and a few others. Chris Rokusek volunteered on a one-
time basis before the Design Automation Conference meeting to generate the
complete set of ibischk3/ebdchk3 executables. Bob volunteered to compress
and post them.
AR - Chris Rokusek generate the ibischk3 and ebdchk3 executables for Version
3.0.1 in a timely manner and sent to Bob Ross. Bob compress and put the
preliminary executables on eda.org for general access.
Chris Rokusek also stated that a company who paid for the source code
wants to add additional sanity checking, and Chris wondered how this may
be folded back into the official source. Bob stated that any
changes of this nature have to be worked thru the full committee.
COOKBOOK
Stephen Peters reports that there no is progress on the Cookbook project.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora indicated no activity. However, Bob Ross knows of a possible
future testing situation.
For general information, the contact person is:
Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com
BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
Bob Ross indicated no activity, but BIRD42.3 will be discussed in the near
future. Bob has some concern about specifying both the [Pullup Reference
Current] and [Pulldown Reference Current] and some numerical interactions.
Bob indicated that aspects of BIRD42.3 have been discussed at the last two
IBIS Summit Meetings. Bob also indicated that the EMC and IBIS Modeling
sub-committee wanted the functionality that BIRD42.3 provides.
BIRD48 - ADD MODEL
BIRD49 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS
BIRD50 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD
Bob Ross made several comments on these BIRDs related to some additional
functionality that was known, but not included in the original proposals.
First, there still needs to be a mechanism to bypass the edge-trigger
method of activating the dynamic clamps since some implementations allow the
clamps to be invoked from an external clock so that the clamp is preset in a
shifted clamp state. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that it might be possible to
use a negative time value in the [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] to
indicate a preset state. This could relate to the operation to the control
pulse used by EDA tools. Bob will look into possible methods.
Bob also stated that some of the Add Model functionality is active only
for certain states. Since the Model_type might be used for a particular
state (such as Input, I/O or Output) another subparameter such as "State"
might be needed. It would indicate usage during Input, Output, or I/O
modes.
Bob also noted that the embedded added models may be for an Open_sink or
Open_source state. The [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] extensions
could be used to explicitly give the internal loading conditions since the
internal added model configuration was not given.
BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS
Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD45.1 for the purpose of rejecting it since
BIRD48 and BIRD49 were intended to replace BIRD45.1. After some discussion
on historical details, a vote on BIRD45.1 was held.
BIRD45.1 was reject unanimously with two abstentions from newer members based
on not being familiar with the issues.
BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS
Since BIRD46.1 has not been issued, Bob Ross deferred the discussion.
AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file
and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to
a <filename> limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing
the period "." character.
3-STATE ECL
As a new item Bob Ross indicated that per the discussion at the last meeting,
he may issue a BIRD on this for adding the Model_type 3-state_ECL. He knows
of an ECL device or two which really has a high-Z mode.
ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION DISCUSSION
As a new item Bob Ross indicated that there were some Electrical Board
Description clarification and technical questions. He might issue a BIRD
for clarification. The items are:
(1) We intended that circular references not be allowed, but Bob cannot find
this being prohibited - e.g., EBD A references EBD B which references
EBD A. Stephen Peters indicated that he assumed that this was not
permitted. Bob thought ebdchk3 might actually test for this.
(2) Bob questioned whether we want to keep the restriction of .ebd files
not containing actual IBIS models. A single file for the .ebd and all
related IBIS models (and even other Electrical Board Descriptions) would
help assure that all of the related information of an Electrical Board
Description are included in the same file. Bob indicated that we
originally prohibited including IBIS data in .ebd files for some
practical reasons. We did not want to make the ebdchk3 utility too
complicated in order to make its development manageable. We also did
not want to impose on the user a very large utility to do just IBIS
model or EBD model checking. These assumptions may not be valid. At
this time, a superset checker for both may be practical. We already
permit a separate .pkg file and also the [Define Package Model] keyword
to be defined within a .ibs file, so allowing an IBIS component in a
.ebd file could work in a similar manner. The reference designator
listing referencing the same file would needed for referenced IBIS
models. Bob stated, however, that one issue could be conflicting
[Define Electrical Description] names and [Component] names.
(3) Regarding conflicting names for [Define Electrical Description] and
[Component], Bob recommended that the names be different in practice to
avoid confusion.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, May 15, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to
9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1, if issued, is scheduled for a vote. Final resolution
of the IBIS logo is scheduled.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentorg.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-56
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Apr 28 10:20:46 1998
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