DATE: 12/21/99
SUBJECT: 12/17/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com Roy Leventhal*
Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic,
Fred Ballesteri*
Avanti Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff
Cisco Systems Syed Huq*
Compaq Bob Haller*, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman,
Maher Elasad, Peter LaFlamme, Doug Burns
Cypress (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Alex Nosovitski, Shan Haq
Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem, Graham Connolly,
Christian Klein*
H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said)
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu
HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli*,
Lynne Green, John Angulo*, Gene Garat,
Robin Edwards
IBM Greg Edlund, Michael Cohen*, Praven Patel,
Paul Clouser
Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles,
Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson,
Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou,
Will Hobbs, Henri Maramis
LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad,
Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber,
Karine Loudet, Hisham Gamal, Evgeny Wasserman,
Tom Dagostino, Mohamed Nasef
Mitsubishi (Tam Cao)
Motorola Ron Werner*
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda,
Ed Sayre III, Jinhua Chen
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Nortel Networks Martin Hall (& at Viewlogic), Calvin Trowell,
Ross Pryor
Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke,
Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer,
Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg,
Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo,
Christian Sporrer
SiQual Scott McMorrow
Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin*, Shankar Balasubramaniah,
Ramzi Ammar, Thomas Fisher
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky*, Steven Corey
Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Cary Mandel,
(Jon Powell)
VeriBest (Mentor Graphics) [Ian Dodd]
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
VLSI Technology (Philips) D.C. Sessions*
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999:
3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Alcatel Steven Criel
Analytical Edge Robert Easson
Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson
BMW Friedrich Haslinger
Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin
Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf
Celestica Danny Da Silva
Dynamics Research Corporation Mike Walsh
ECI Telecom Daniel Adar
EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming*,
Dan Heinemeier
Electronique Catherine Gross
EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch
FCI John Ellis
Foxcomm Jeff Walden
General DataComm Laurence Michaels
High Design Technology Razvan Ene
Hitachi ULSI Hideki Fukuda
Infineon Thomas Latzel
Intracon Design Mike Osmond
KAW Shinichi Maeda
Litton Systems Robert Bremer
Lucent Jason Pritchard
Matsushita Atsuji Itoh
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Newbridge Networks Bruce Carlile
Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer
Praegitzer Design Rick Newell, Paul Galloway, Joe Socha
Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau
Rode Consulting Chris Rode
Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi
Shindengen Tsuyoshi Horigome
Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre
Stratus Keith Vieira
StorageTek Nick Krull
Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Kevin Ko, Greg Fitzgerald,
Nick LaPlaca
Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter
Teradyne Mikhail Khusid
VDOL Robert Novosel
Xilinx Susan Wu
(Unaffiliated, Retired) Bruce Wenniger
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
January 14, 2000 (916) 356-9200 5-169351 4378912
January 31, 2000 - DesignCon 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting (No Bridge)
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Ross started the meeting and stated that there were the required number
of companies present to establish a quorum.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that 3Com has officially joined the EIA IBIS Open Forum
making the end of the year membership at 33.
Cecilia Fleming reported that invoices for year 2000 membership have been
mailed.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Bob Ross corrected the attendee list in the December 3, 1999 Minutes to
include Fred Ballesteri and not include Bob Haller. Bob also made some
format improvements and other minor changes to avoid line wrap in printing.
The December 3, 1999 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes were approved with the
above changes.
The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross stated that these Minutes contain the final 1999 participation list.
Similarly in any previous year, the last minutes of that year contain the
participation list for that year. The next minutes will start a new list
of year 2000 participation.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq reported a Compaq logo update on the Poster and some minor roster
changes on the Poster and IBIS Roster Listing links of the official IBIS
Home page.
Bob Ross reported that DesignCon2000 has a presentation by Syed Huq on
"Solving SI Issues with IBIS Models in High-Speed Applications."
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that Jon Powell plans to do some updates to the Models
link of the IBIS Home Page over Christmas vacation. (Send updates to him at
the address at the end of the Minutes.)
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming is still waiting for word
on the formal ratification of IBIS Version 3.2 as IEC 62104-1.
- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Bob Ross had no further report and repeated from last meeting that a
Version 1.2 has been posted for review with a deadline of December 25, 1999.
Note added after the meeting: the link to the document has been moved and is
now located at the bottom of:
http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/eds/iopg.htm
- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Jean-Claude
Perrin reported that a document is still in preparation. He will request
Bob Ross to review it, when available.
- JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross reported that the D.C.
Sessions is the new Chair of JEDEC JC-16 and wants to work closely with the
IBIS Open Forum.
DESIGNCON 2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross stated that the IBIS Summit meeting is being held on Monday,
January 31, 2000 in Santa Clara, California. The IBIS Open Forum is listed
again as an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2000 which means that DesignCon
is providing the meeting room and refreshments and also booth space.
National Semiconductor is sponsoring the luncheon.
Milt Schwartz reported that has sent out the first announcement. He has
received about 5 responses so far, and about 10 people at the meeting
indicated that they plan to attend. So it looks like we are on track for
about 50 participants. We will send out another notice in early January.
The program is being formed and may (tentatively) include these topics:
Lynne Green - "Model Design: Tables and Equations"
Donald Telium - "Input Receiver Modeling"
Gus Panella - "Connector Model Specification"
Bob Haller/Greg Edlund - "Accuracy Specification"
Stephen Peters - "Discussion on the Future of IBIS"
Jon Powell is handling the IBIS booth and logos. Also Bob Haller may have
and Accuracy board demonstration.
DATE2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross reported that Viewlogic has joined Incases and Mentor Graphics as
co-sponsors.
Bob reviewed that the DATE2000 IBIS Summit meeting associated with the
Design Automation and Testing in Europe conference is still planned to be
held in Paris, France on Friday, March 31, 2000. The meeting will end early
in the afternoon to allow attendees to fly back that evening. The PCB
Symposium is scheduled for Thursday, March 30, 2000.
COOKBOOK STATUS
Stephen Peters had no report.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
No new models.
S2IBIS3 PROPOSAL DISCUSSION
Bob Ross opened the discussion by summarizing the previous meeting discussion.
The question raised was whether the IBIS Open Forum should fund the
development of a s2ibis3 utility which will compete commercial utilities.
A decision is needed to before moving forward to get bids on doing the
project based on the recently issued requirements document.
The s2ibis and s2ibis2 projects were done at North Carolina State University
under DARPA and private funding. The purpose was to seed the development
of IBIS Models. The utility was a prototype and was never was intended to be
of commercial quality. In fact, it was turned over to the IBIS Open Forum
for support since the student developers could not provide the support.
Later in the meeting, Kellee Chrisafulli shared historical background that he
originally pushed for the idea of a automatic Spice to IBIS translation
utility in the IBIS Committee that initiated the project.
Bob stated some of the arguments regarding funding advanced at the last
meeting:
Pro:
The s2ibis freeware was first and is used by many developers
The IBIS Open Forum has an obligation to maintain the utility
This will improve the quality of models since it is widely used
Freeware does not hurt commercial tools (e.g., Berkeley Spice)
Helps promote IBIS Version 3.2
This is really a bug fix project that extends to IBIS Version 3.2
Con:
We already have rejected a Tektronix proposal with commercial conflicts
The IBIS Open Forum actually supports commercial solutions
This may be very expensive
Active promotion of free tools is bad for commercial tools
It is not fair to commercial vendors who have already invested the time and
money, and then to user similar ideas
The IBIS Committee would be better served to provide enticements to
commercial vendors to improve their tools
Also added:
The commercial product was introduced at DesignCon99 before the Spice to
IBIS Committee was formed
The IBIS Open Forum should have started the program earlier (before the
commercial announcement)
Bob then asked for any more discussion. Not all of the points are captured
here.
Kellee Chrisafulli argued that the IBIS Open Forum initiated the s2ibis
projects and that it was appropriate and relevant to advance it. Furthermore,
he argued that deferring to one vendor's implementation gave that vendor
a monopoly.
Matthew Flora was concerned about the extent that the s2ibis3 committee used
the commercial implementation as the basis of the proposal. Michael Cohen
clarified that the improvements were made without knowing the details of the
commercial implementation. However, there was visibility of the IBIS Center
Utility internal to Intel and the GUI from Cadence. The main intent was to
provide bug fixes.
Arpad Muranyi was concerned about any possible patent protection. Bob did
not think this was a problem.
Stephen Peters was concerned that the project implies rewriting the code
versus just fixing it. There was more of a flavor of a new project than
just a bug fix.
Raj Raghuran pointed out that the IBIS Open Forum did not actually fund the
original projects. Kellee indicated that it might have done so if other
funding was not available. There was some discussion on how s2ibis3
funding is similar or different than ibischk3 funding and whether the s2ibis3
utility is crucial to model development and promoting IBIS Version 3.2.
Ron Werner pointed out that EIA Committees can fund proof of concept tools,
but should defer to commercial tools.
Arpad argued that the enhancements will give a better tool to the users and
will make the production of better IBIS models possible.
Kellee and Raj discussed from different points of view that the market for
a commercial s2ibis3 tools is small. Without the s2ibis3 utility, one vendor
could dominate. However, because of the small market, a free tool could
stifle any commercial entry. Commercial competition in even a small market
is possible and healthy. Bob indicated that some company model development
services provide a different type of commercial competition.
Kellee suggested that the IBIS Home Page provide a link to the commercial
utility. Bob stated that we do not promote commercial products. However,
the companies can provide information from Poster page link and also give
some general descriptions in the Roster page link.
Raj presented the analogy that if the IBIS Open Forum were considering
funding a free reference IBIS Simulator that competed with commercial
simulators, there would be objection. A reference simulator would
"standardize" consistent operation and would be competitive to the higher
cost commercial solutions that exist. The relevance and critical need for
such an IBIS simulator is similar to the s2ibis3 project needs.
Bob clarified that a vote not to fund the work does not prevent non-funded
volunteer work to fix or improve the existing utility and offer it to the
community.
Bob Ross called for a vote on whether the IBIS Open Forum should move forward
and ask for bids on the s2ibis3 development that would require EIA IBIS Open
Forum funding.
The motion was defeated by a vote of 4 Yes, 7 No and 3 Abstaining. (The
number of abstentions is corrected to 4 after the meeting.)
Michael Cohen disbanded the s2ibis3 sub-committee and thanked the participants
for their fine work in drafting the requirements specification. Others also
thanked the sub-committee for their work.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
In the remaining time, Bob Ross invited some further discussion on the
Connector Specification. Bob stated that he had become more familiar with the
document, but did not have time to write comments, as previously intended.
Arpad Muranyi had just issued some comments.
Bob provided a document overview. Out of the 33 pages, about 6 pages are
devoted to header and syntax rules similar those in the IBIS Standard, 12
pages describe connector model keywords, and about 15 pages define the
matrices and swath matrix concept.
Bob asked Kellee Chrisafulli to discuss and clarify the swath matrix. Kellee
indicated that it is intended to provide a more compact, but possibly less
accurate description based on expanding a small representative section. The
connector vendors needed this capability because they did not intend to
separate models for each of the many pin configurations for each connector.
Outer edge columns or rows were intended to be simulated with paths
terminated by a specified [Cn_Z] impedance to approximate the surrounding
environment.
Mike LaBonte commented the [Cn_Grid_Swath] keyword was more general and
eliminated the need for [Cn_Horizontal_Swath] and [Cn_Vertical_Swath]
keywords. It would help implementors to have fewer choices. Kellee stated
that there were additional reasons for the other keywords.
Kellee also noted that a complete physical representation of the connector
is possible without using the swath matrix approach.
Arpad Muranyi commented that it would be helpful to have a syntax map
diagram to help sort out the syntax details and rules in the document.
Bob ended the discussion to allow some comments regarding the next Agenda
item.
IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters summarized that there has been recent reflector
discussion with good ideas. The range of proposals include formalized
Spice-like language to application program interface (API). He commented
that he approached the problem by considering a high pin count component from
a net centric point of view with drivers and receivers on the nets. With
such an approach, the enhanced model would handle details including package
details and pin coupling better.
Arpad Muranyi stated that we need more time to discuss this subject. Bob Ross
stated that this topic will be moved ahead of the Connector Specification
discussion in the next meeting Agenda.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, January 14, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-209
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@viewlogic.com
Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jpowell@viewlogic.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
mbflora@hyperlynx.com
Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
114715 N.E. 95th Street
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Dec 21 11:55:25 1999
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