Date: 3/5/01
SUBJECT: 3/02/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (Mark Chang)
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti (Chen Hongyu)
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Cadence Design Ian Dodd*
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Compaq Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam
Cypress (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone*
IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang,
Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs
LSI Logic Larry Barnes*
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad
Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi (Tam (Tom) Cao)
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier
Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) (Werner Rissiek)
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Acuson Kim Helliwell
AMCC Jeff Smith
Apple Computer John Figueroa
ASIS Ltd David Wright
Cereva Networks Bob Haller*
EIA Cecilia Fleming*
FCI Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion
Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen
Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang
Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin
Nokia Tapani von Ravner
Oak Technology Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha
STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt
Xilinx Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant Al Davis
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
March 16, 2001 European IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge
March 30, 2001 (916) 356-9200 2-524673 6244264
April 20, 2001 (916) 356-9200 2-524674 3881934
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Haller from Cereva Networks (a 250 person "start-up" company) joined. Bob
had been active in the past years with another company. He is now involved as
actively uses IBIS models and is interested in accuracy issues. Bob also
expressed interest in getting his company to become an official member of the
EIA IBIS Open Forum.
Adam Trambone of Fairchild Semiconductor had attended the Designcon 2001 IBIS
Summit Meeting. He is responsible for producing IBIS models for several
technologies.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Signal Integrity Software (SISoft) is now an official
EIA IBIS Open Forum member (and now listed in the Voting Members Participants
List).
Bob stated, as previously reported, that we have about 22 payments out of 36
invoices so far. Bob said that he is working with Cecilia Fleming on the
final year 2000 results. He expects credit for some additional revenue that
was not given in the preliminary report at the February 16, 2001 meeting.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The February 16, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.
The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq made roster updates and added a new logo in
the Poster link.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
During the Meeting, Bob Ross - Version 4.0 Release Plans
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming added more clarification
to the previous report that if the FDIS (Final Draft International Standard)
vote is successful, IBIS Version 3.2 can be published as an official
international standard sometime after April 13, 2001.
- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.
- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
mentioned that there are three presentations planned at the European IBIS
Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001. This will be discussed
later. Also, there are two other related presentations on EMI and ground
bounce issues.
- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.
- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported
on the meeting held February 20-22, 2001. Work is progressing on the SCSI
Signal Modeling (SSM) Technical Report. The Committee is interested in
proposing a "fallback driver" function in IBIS similar to [Driver Schedule]
that reduces the strength of the buffer if a second consecutive bit is
specified. This functionality is needed soon since the final specification
of the SCSI device will be ready in several months. Larry also mentioned
that 3-level logic will become standardized in several years, but is not
pushing for this functionality in the current IBIS Standard. Bob Ross stated
that this would be implemented better in IBIS-X.
Larry commented that the SSM report took much information from the IBIS
Cookbook and adapted it to the SCSI standard. Bob also mentioned that had a
few editorial comments related to some nomenclature conventions we adopted
after the cookbook was issued. The document can be retrieved from the
SCSI Signal Modeling Technical Report (SCM) link under:
or directly at:
ftp://ftp.t10.org/drafts/ssm/ssm-r02.pdf
Larry recommended to his Committee members to become involved with the IBIS
Open Forum.
DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross introduced the topic by giving the basic information so far on the
European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich,
Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001)
conference and exhibit. The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the trade
show portion of the show. Bob stated that four companies are co-sponsors of
the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics, and Zuken (Incases). This
pays for the meeting room, refreshments and free lunch to participants.
Bob stated that a third Announcement was recently sent on February 27, 2001,
with about eleven presentations. The program now completely filled with
about fourteen presentations, and the meeting will last all day.
So far, Bob estimates about 25 people have signed up, which translates into
about 40 attendees so far. The next announcement will contain a revised
Agenda and will ask for signup responses to better anticipate the number of
reservations for lunch that is provided.
Bob then went over the additions to the program from the last announcement.
A draft Agenda is listed below.
EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Astron Hotel, Munich Germany
MARCH 16, 2001
8:30 REFRESHMENTS
9:00 INTRODUCTIONS AND PROGRAM
Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics, USA
9:30 Experiences with and Tips for IBIS Models
Eckhard Lenski, Siemens AG, Germany
10:00 Extraction of Key IBIS Parameters for Easier Model Selection
John Berrie, Zuken, England
10:30 BREAK
10:45 DOGEN, A Siemens Internal Model Tool, Extension 1999 - 2001
Hans Pichlmaier, Siemens AG, Germany
11:15 LVDS Modeling
Hazem Hegazy and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics, Egypt
12:00 LUNCH
13:00 STTL-2 Modeling Experiences
Bernhard Unger, Siemens AG, Germany
13:30 CAN (Controller Area Network) Bus Modeling
Manfred Maurer, Siemens AG, Germany
14:00 EMC Standardization Progress (title to be determined)
Jean-Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments, France
14:15 EMC Models (title to be determined)
Christian Marot, Siemens, France
14:30 Parasitic IC Emission Modeling
Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science, Toulouse, France
15:00 BREAK
15:15 Ground-Noise Model
Mariusz Faferko, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration,
Germany
15:45 Radiated Emission Model for IC
Peter Kralicek, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration,
Germany
16:15 Points of View for High Frequency IBIS Models
Gerald Bannert, Siemens AG, Germany
16:30 IBIS-X
Arpad Muranyi, Intel, USA
16:55 Concluding Items
17:00 END
Arpad Muranyi stated that he plans to attend and can work with the final
twenty five minutes with information based on some previous presentations.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo stated (later in the meeting) that he has received no new models
since the report on the February 16, 2001 meeting.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Bob Ross summarized a meeting between he and Gus Panella held on February 27,
2001. The main changes were to add the [Begin Header] and [End Header] syntax
as done in the IBIS-X document. Bob also indicated that there will be a pass
to improve the document appearance including removing the left-hand bars.
Ian Dodd had sent out a revised code proposal to the committee to bring its
syntax closer to the IBIS-X macro language proposed syntax. Bob stated that
this revised code would be included.
The basic plan is to finish doing these changes and then issue a new document
for the IBIS Open Forum to review. It would be in several formats including
.txt, .doc, and .pdf. The plan is to schedule some time (15 to 30 minutes)
of each teleconference meeting to review specified portions of the document.
People can still comment on the document as a whole and we can continue to
work in the other areas. Hopefully this review completion can be completed
in the targeted June 2001 time frame.
IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported on the progress to date and on the February 20, 2001
meeting. The next meeting will be on the two week schedule on March 6, 2001.
Stephen is working on another update of the specification document the
Working Group is developing. The target is to get this document and the
IBIS-X macro language documented by the June 2001 time frame.
One item that needs more work is the pin to pad packaging portion. There
might also be interest in applying the Swathing methods in the Connector
document. Also, Bob Ross mentioned that a number of older proposals could be
reviewed.
Bob also mentioned that at the next Working Group meeting, Arpad's IBIS-X
presentation for the European IBIS Summit might be discussed.
IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross moved this agenda item ahead until Greg Edlund returned to the call.
Bob reported that Matthew Flora is working on the fix to BUG53 and BUG34.
Matthew will coordinate with Atul Agarwal and send the revised source code to
him. BUG34 was authored by Matthew, and Bob felt that Matthew knew the issues
and possible areas of code that needed fixing. Bob wants to get an ibischk3
Version 3.2.7 distributed quickly, even if that is the only fix.
- BUG54 - Corners with NA give Bad Test Load Warnings
Bob Ross introduced BUG54, authored by Michael Mirmak. It reports a Warning
message for the timing test load Vmeas crossing for min and max column cases
even when the min and max columns contain NA entries.
Bob classified BUG54 as Annoying, Low, and Open.
However, Bob expressed some concerns regarding BUG54. While most of the min
and max columns contained NA entries, three keywords ([Ramp], [Voltage
Range], and [Temperature Range]) did contain min and max column numerical
entries. The problem may still exist if these entries were NA, but the
example needs to be produced to test this. Also, since most EDA tools
should use default typical entries if NAs exist, the problem may still
exist. Bob thought that with such defaults, the model should work fine and
should not produce Warning messages. More investigation is needed in this
area.
Bob thought the actual set of tests and Warnings might become complicated
and require effort to sort out combinations when only some keywords contain
NA entries. Bob was concerned about the effort involved versus the benefit
obtained.
Michael commented later in the meeting that he would issue a new version of
BUG54 with a better example or examples.
Bob planned more discussion at the next teleconference meeting to decide on
whether or not to fix BUG54 and how to fix it.
BIRD69.1 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Greg Edlund introduced BIRD69.1 by noting that it was issued in response to
comments of the February 16, 2001 meeting. Briefly, the intent of BIRD69.1
is to provide golden waveforms within the IBIS model along with the test
configuration used to obtain these waveforms. The user would have the golden
waveform information and could test the IBIS model using the specified test
configuration to validate the performance of the model. The EDA tool could
also perform such a test. However, since this information is contained in
new keywords, the EDA tool could also ignore these keywords.
Greg noted the changes made in BIRD69.1. They are documented in BIRD69.1 and
include the following:
Change Node to Test_point
Remove Driver_model_name since it was redundant
Add R_diff for differential models
Change some terminology so that parallel terminators V_term1 and V_term2 can
be attached to different voltages
Add Pkg_pin to describe what package is to be used for the model
Bob Ross called for discussion. Stephen Peters commented that it still called
for a big network with fixed topology. The IBIS-X approach would support a
more general tester functionality.
Roy Leventhal commented that he favors BIRD69.1 since it could be specified
for IBIS Version 4.0 earlier than the anticipated IBIS-X.
Bob Haller is concerned about the accuracy of models. He emphasized that the
the EDA tool could use or ignore the information. But the golden waveform
provides important information about the accuracy of the model.
Stephen stated that while there may be merit, it might not be of as high a
priority as some other items. We set a new agenda item to talk about the
possible new items needed for Version 4.0.
Greg stated that this should be a low impact BIRD. However, it would increase
the size of the IBIS Standard, and create more work for updating ibischk3.
Yong Phan stated that one customer required golden data. In the short term
this need was satisfied by suppling a Spice model as reference.
Bob provided some technical comments about BIRD69.1 and about some related
implications:
One implication concerning the R_diff entry that both the Non-Inverting and
Inverting drivers would have to be from the same model. This is not an
IBIS requirement. The models could be different. However, Bob did not
know whether this restriction would be a problem.
Bob was unsure that the Tref entry to state a time reference was needed or
the best way to handle this. EDA tools might do their own alignment of
data. The actual alignment might be shifted by leading edge removal that
is implied by BIRD68.
The Pkg_pin addition was a good idea. Some of the golden data might be from
measurements, and we need to know what pin is used. However, the approach
in IBIS is still ambiguous. Some semiconductor vendors supply several
components with a file that may reference the same model. One reason for
doing this is to cover package variations that are shipped. These
variations may even have different pin outs.
Bob also stated another implication of this subparameter. It is not clear
clear what to do if Pkg_pin referred to a pin that was modeled using a
coupled package model. Greg stated that he did assume a single pin model
configuration. Bob noted that the original [Rising Waveform] and [Falling
Waveform] keywords got around the pin ambiguity problem by adding R_dut,
L_dut, and C_dut subparameters. A similar approach could be used for the
golden waveform keywords.
Another implication of having [Golden Rising Waveform] and [Golden Falling
Waveform] is that the golden responses would be for only one edge. Bob
thinks this is all right. However, some semiconductor vendors might want
to provide full cycle references. Also there might be some implications
if the IBIS model was actually derived from edges after several cycles.
Finally, Bob stated that all of the subparameters should be optional. A
large list is currently required, as BIRD69.1 is now structured. The
defaults could be stated based on unspecified shunt elements being open
and series elements being shorted. Also, this resolves an inconsistency
regarding requiring "none" if no Receiver model or Pkg_pin were needed.
They should be included only if listed.
Bob felt that not all of the comments needed to be addressed by changes, but
some of the limitations should noted. Bob asked Greg to consider the comments
and propose a response as BIRD69.2 for further discussion at the next
teleconference meeting.
VERSION 4.0 RELEASE PLANS - New Topic
Bob Ross opened the topic by noting that the six approved BIRDs could go
into IBIS Version 4.0 or could be implemented in IBIS-X as a Version 4.0
emulation mode. Stephen Peters felt that IBIS Version 4.0 was needed along
with IBIS-X. Arpad Muranyi commented that it is needed, and is about a year
late from when it was originally expected.
Larry Barnes stated that the fallback driver functionality is needed soon
since SCSI applications will have this feature in months. Bob stated he would
work off line with Larry to propose a BIRD. Bob noted that some other related
features that are needed could be included. He favored using the Submodel
approach rather than a method patterned after [Driver Schedule].
Stephen noted that some PCI functionality concerning more timing thresholds
has been discussed on e-mail reflectors and is needed. He plans to work on
this. Greg Edlund commented that he and Syed Huq have also been concerned
about PCI specification needs and might join in helping define and review this
functionality.
Bob stated that he might want to include some possible improvements for SSO
(simultaneous switching output) modeling as proposed last year by Bernhard
Unger.
Bob stated that IBIS Version 4.0 is still intended to be a "minor" upgrade to
capture some of the recent needs for completeness. However, some EDA tools
might actually use IBIS-X methods to implement the new features.
Bob also stated that in targeting a Version 4.0 release in the near futures,
all of the possible improvements need to be proposed soon. He expects that a
few more BIRDs may also be proposed as part of the process to reach closure.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany
on Friday, March 16, 2001. No teleconference connection is planned.
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 30, 2001, from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-209
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Innoveda
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
roy_leventhal@3com.com
Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
1800 W. Central Rd.
Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Innoveda
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================
Received on Mon Mar 5 12:56:33 2001
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