Re: [IBIS] Re: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

From: Roberto IZZI <roberto.izzi_at_.....>
Date: Fri Jan 12 2007 - 00:15:25 PST
Hello everybody

  Thank you very much for your feedback.

  In my open drain ibis model, I have extracted Rise and fall wave by TX 
level  simulation of buffer (spice) connecting a
  load resistance value equal to 20K between open drain pad and power. 
In this case I have considered the real
  delay between transient of input signal and output. Now if I consider 
the same input signal (by which I have
  extracted Rise and Fall tables) for ibis model and the same resistance 
value (20k), I should have the same
  behaviour between Ibis and spice buffer.

  Thanks and best regards.

   Roberto Izzi

Dimitry Eisenshtat wrote:

> Hi all,
> Mei Yee, if you see the buffer to be modeled as box with some 
> interface (lets speak for example about one directional buffer which 
> has only transmitter, so the interface in simplest case will be 
> data_from_core, enable, pad) - you of course expected from IBIS 
> representation the same (in ideal case) behavioral as the 
> transistor-level simulation with spice, in other words, no delay is 
> expected between both transient responses. But it is the artificial 
> situation, in real life you are looking from board level and you can 
> not synchronize your simulation with signal inside the core aren't 
> you? How you can define for example WHEN the input signal starts the 
> transition - it dependent on unknown digital stage number the signal 
> is walking on before the buffer data_from_core input, isn't it ? As i 
> understand, the delay from enable to pad is meaningless, because 
> actually you can not define absolute time in board-level scope, only 
> the transition itself is important. Another question is - why the 
> delay comes to be, but for example the answer may be the time 
> windowing of V/T tables (I mean the model maker probably shifts the 
> transients response table in order to make the time window smaller, 
> for example).
>
> I have to say, I'm circuit designer and I has produced a lot of IBIS 
> models, but has actually no knowledge about using of these models on 
> board level, so I really like to know if I have a mistake. Aubrey, did 
> you mean the same things?
>
> Regards,
>    Dmitry
>
> NG,MEI-YEE wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> I would like to say that I experienced the same phenomenon as Roberto,
>> with the IBIS waveform delayed compared to the transistor level
>> simulation. Aubrey, what do you mean by IBIS model doesn't contain
>> buffer delay? How does that explain IBIS model being delayed in the
>> output response?
>>
>> Appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mei Yee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com
>> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:15 AM
>> To: roberto.izzi@st.com; ibis@server.eda-stds.org;
>> ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always
>> aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.
>>
>>
>> Aubrey Sparkman Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
>> Dell, Inc. Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com (512) 723-3592
>>
>> The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
>> To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
>> drain buffer Ibis model.
>> I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
>> voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
>> In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
>> of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
>> a delay between TL output and Ibis output. In the Ibis file, for Open 
>> drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
>> extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
>> What is the cause of this strange behaviour?
>>
>>   Thanks and best regards
>>
>>         Roberto Izzi
>>    
>>
>> -- 
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>
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Received on Fri Jan 12 00:16:12 2007

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