Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
From: Guy de Burgh (gdeburgh@camarillo.innoveda.com)
Date: Tue Sep 04 2001 - 10:18:00 PDT
DATE: 9/4/01
SUBJECT: August 31, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui,
Fred Balistreri
Avanti (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
Lynne Green*, Lance Wang*
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen
IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel,
Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*,
Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen,
Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino*, Chris Reid,
Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd*
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity Raj Raghuram*
SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Acuson Kim Helliwell
AMCC Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd David Wright
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
BMW Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks Bob Haller
Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet
(Aerospatiale)
EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA Cecilia Fleming
Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm
FCI Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
Reliability and
Integration
Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang
Idaho State University Al Davis
Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard
Science (INSA)
Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
Janne Uusitalo
Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier,
Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski,
Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller,
Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer,
Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
Thursday, September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Phone Bridge
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that we have 31 new members, with one more
prospect. We had projected 30 members for the year, so we are ahead of
budget.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The August 10, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross noted that Syed Huq and Cecilia Fleming did several Web updates
(Roster, Upcoming Events).
A top-level "Ver 4.0 Work In Progress" link on the web site has been updated
with the latest Ver 4.0 draft. This unofficial draft includes the recently
passed Birds 70.5 and 71.
Bob reported that Zuken is offering a free "ibisinf" utility that works on
several platforms and can be downloaded from:
http://www.zuken.com/solutions_board_ibis.asp
Stephen Peters asked what it produces. Bob responded that it provides model
information including subparameter values (e.g., Vinh, Vmeas), I-V and V-T
table informations (e.g, R_fixture value of each table). It also provides
component information including how many pins are modeled.
Bob reported that Syed added a link to this under the FREE Tools section
of the IBIS Home page.
Bob reported that Roy Leventhal is checking and updating the links on the
Models page.
Stephen added that he has invited a newly formed Signal Integrity Technical
Committee within the EMC Society (and announced on the SI reflector) to
inform the IBIS community of its activities.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
No new models or library updates were reported.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters reported
the Jean-Claude Perrin sent him an email stating that the document is
now officially stored as an IEC technical document. Bob Ross will ask
Cecilia Fleming if she can find the link.
- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.
- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report.
PCB CONFERENCE EAST 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS
Stephen Peters reported that an IBIS Summit Meeting is planned for Thursday,
September 13, 2001 in Worcester, Massachusetts at the Crowne Plaza Hotel
near the PCB Conference East 2001 show. The meeting follows the day after
the trade show portion of the show. The Upcoming events link of the IBIS
home page already contains the sign-up information and hotel information.
Free lunch and refreshments are included.
The third announcement has been sent out. Bob Ross reports that we still
expect about 20 people. Some local people have not signed up yet, and
Stephen urged those that have not signed up to do so.
To date, four presentations are planned (titles may change):
"Modeling the Radiated Emission of Micro-controllers", Etienne Sicard,
National Institute of Applied Science (INSA) in France
"A Proposal for s2ibis3", Michael Steer, North Carolina State University
"Power/Ground Simulation with IBIS Models and Pin Mapping Issues",
Raj Raghuram, Sigrity, Inc.
"From Model Creator to Model User", Bob Haller, Cereva Networks
Stephen added these presentations from the Working Groups:
"Progress and Update in the Connector Specification",
Stephen Peters, Intel
"Progress and Issues in IBIS-X", Stephen Peters, Intel
"IBIS-X Primitives and Example", Lynne Green, Cadence Design
Bob added later that we will work with Stephen and Kathy Breda and send
out an agenda on Thursday, September 6, 2001. He will also work with the
presenters to get the presentations in by Friday, September 7 for copying.
Otherwise the presenters should expect to bring 30 copies.
Bob also added that the sponsors to date are Mentor Graphics, NESA, the
IBIS Users Group, and the IBIS Open Forum.
DESIGNCON 2002 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara,
California. We will an Associate Sponsor. A large meeting room and
refreshments will be provided. We will also plan on a booth, and Guy de
Burgh will be handling the arrangements. Innoveda will be providing
the backdrop.
Stephen reported that National Semiconductor will sponsor the lunch, as
before. We might require a signup for lunch this time to keep the costs
reasonable.
Most of the initial plans are complete. We will be sending out the
meeting announcements and call for presentations later this year.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo reported that Texas Instrument model has been sent out for
review. Another model has been received and John will forward it to
Bob Ross. Bob also stated that he will update the IBIS home page
email link with his email address. John also mentioned that Jon Powell of
Innoveda has expressed an interest in taking on the IBIS Model Review
function. John Angulo will follow up.
MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that the ibis@eda.org list is now propagating fully.
Stephen Peters asked if posters still need to copy the ibis-users reflector
when they post to the main IBIS relector. After a short discussion we
agreed that this procedure was no longer needed. John took the AR to issue
a note that effect to the reflector.
John then reported that we still have some archive difficulties linking
to *.txt attachments (this needs to done manually) and with ASCII formatted
data (the white space information is hard to restore). We are working on
these issues. Bob Ross added that we have been moving the location under
the IBIS FTP site and plan to open up another archive that currently only
the system administrators can read. That may help resolve the white space
archive problem.
John added that Majordomo subscriptions require his approval, but
unsubscribe requests are handled automatically.
When this is accomplished we will plan to move the ibis-users list under
Majordomo as well. This may possibly occur next week.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that connector meetings were held August 14, 21 and
the 28, with the next one scheduled for Sept 4. The major topic at these
meetings have been understanding the three different ways a connector can
be described and which keywords apply in which cases. In the course of
these discussions we simplified some keywords and eliminated some others.
The connector committee also uncovered an issue with extracting cascaded
matrixes that effects pin order to matrix row mapping. This will require
additional work to solve.
No connector meeting is scheduled for September 11.
IBIS FUTURES REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS Futures group meet on August 16, 23
and 30 with the next meeting scheduled for Sept. 6. The Futures group has
been concentrating on transmission line matrix format as well as some
documentation issues. Stephen also reported that a proposal has been made
to the IBIS Futures group to incorporate the IBIS-X 'define' functionality
directly into the current IBIS data template via a BIRD, thus creating a
relatively straightforward path for adoption of IBIS-X and the macro
language into current IBIS. This BIRD would be issued sometime after
IBIS 4.0 was voted on by the IBIS Open Forum (i.e. it would not effect the
current progress towards IBIS 4.0). The Futures committee accepted the
proposal as the best way to move forward with IBIS-X.
Because of the IBIS east summit, no futures committee meeting is scheduled
for September 13.
BIRD72 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS//PMOS SERIES FET MODELS
Tom Dagostino introduced BIRD72 by reporting that he has created Switch
models from measurement. IBIS Version 3.2 assumes that the Series MOSFET
is an N channel device. Tom has observed P channel and parallel P/N
channel paths. Warning and Error messages are now generated for I-V
tables for such devices.
BIRD72 contains some changes in the notation and equations that allow for
describing these additional I-V tables. The ibischk3 parser would be
revised so that Error messages are not issued for decreasing currents.
Stephen Peters wanted some clarification regarding the Vgs and Voltage.
Tom responded that for P/N MOSFET configurations, the gate voltage was
ambiguous. So Voltage is used in the table, and the Vgs reference is
removed. Lynne Green wanted to know if a different I-V table was needed,
and Tom responded that the same I-V table is used. Raj Raghuram questioned
whether the tables worked for enhanced and depletion mode FETs. Tom
thought that the I-V tables should still represent the data. Bob Ross
noted that there were a few editorial corrections needed.
Stephen stated that with some clarifications, a revised BIRD72.1 might be
ready for a vote in October, 2001.
AR - Tom Dagostino will issue BIRD72.1 with the discussed editorial changes
and clarifications.
BIRD73 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Bob Ross introduced BIRD73 by noting that IBIS Version 3.2 does not cover
the AVC technology devices offered by about four manufacturers. This
technology has a stage turn off during the transition to weaken the overall
driver at the end. This weaker driver may have an output resistance that
provides a better match to the transmission line load.
Bob stated that the existing Bus Hold submodel works in the opposite manner.
It can be triggered to provide a stronger drive. So a new Fall Back
submodel is introduced. One complication is that the state changes for
turning off a device are more difficult to describe. The SIMULATOR RISING
CYCLE: and SIMULATOR FALLING CYCLE: tables in the documentation attempts to
do this. Both a rising or falling edge transition and a voltage trigger
may cause a buffer state change. The table attempts to characterize what
the model will do under all conditions including an ambiguous initial state.
Bob indicated that the example really illustrates an application with ideal
50 Ohm submodels configured as Open_drain and Open_source models. This
assures that the off state is also a high-Z state that provides no load.
He also noted that the V_trigger_* values can be sent out of range to
assure no unwanted triggering can occur. Unlike the Bus Hold submodel, the
Off_delay subparameter is not defined.
Stephen Peters noted that BIRD73 incorrectly copied the Fall Back example as
the existing Bus Hold example. Bob will correct this. He will also make
a correction to an Off_delay example. Bob also noted that BIRD73 is a
candidate for prototyping in the macro language.
Stephen also suggested adding a "state" table to the Bus hold example.
AR - Bob Ross will issue BIRD73.1 with the discussed corrections and
changes.
IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal has started work on fixing BUGs 48 - 56.
Bob has provided more information on BUG54. The expectation is that
ibischk3 Version 3.2.8 will be available by the end of September 2001.
BUG59 - Crash with Decimal Points for [Package] Subparameters
Per the discussion at the last meeting, Bob Ross reported that John Angulo
validated that the parser did crash under Windows 2000.
Bob proposed that we upgrade the classification from ANNOYING, LOW, OPEN to
MODERATE, LOW, OPEN.
We still may need Innoveda to help identify the problem and provide a
solution based on several Windows specific issues. Assuming that Atul
does not have access to a Windows 2000 system, John Angulo took the AR to
contact Matt Flora to see if he can help identify the fix.
BUG60 - Incorrect Series Function Table Order Dependency
Bob Ross introduced BUG60. An incorrect warning message is issued for
[Series Switch Groups] entries that are not in the same sequence as the
function_table_group entries. For example, a line
On 1 2 3 4 /
works, but
On 2 1 3 4 /
causes incorrect Warning messages related to undefined switch functions.
The IBIS Version 3.2 specification does not require that the entries follow
the same sequence.
Bob proposed classifying this as MODERATE, MEDIUM, OPEN since the parser
gives an incorrect Warning on a legal IBIS model. The short term work
around is to carefully order the [Series Switch Groups] entries. After
some discussion the group agreed with this classification.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be the IBIS Summit Meeting on Thursday, September 13,
2001 from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM. No teleconference connection is planned.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Innoveda
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
roy_leventhal@3com.com
Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com
subsidiary)
1800 W. Central Rd.
Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Innoveda
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
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============================================================================
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